Castles in game

Story & Setting
#21

@Anzious Very impressive

#22

Very good work!
But I didn’t make the map. Please, post your work in the map thread I linked in my previous post.

Unnamed = Neuhof, you can see it on the in-game map of the stream video (see map thread).

Why did you rotate the map?
And why did you use math coord system instead of a coord system used for computer graphics (origin of ordinates in the upper left corner)?

Real map:

Map of the game world (Act I):

#23

Cant wait to play it

#24

Does it matter? And when did the computer graphic use upper left corner? or you mean graphical applications such as photoshop/gimp?

And I think he used so he could use positive numbers.

#25

When using upper left corner you still got positive numbers. :smile:

#26

I’m glad you like it. :smiley:
I’ll be sure to post there.
rotated the map slightly to make it better fit in a square. I used a math coordinate system, because I am used to that (physics student), and I used matlab to plot the graphs. If I used an inverted y-axis I would have to translate the coordinates, so they would fit with the map, when I plotted them.

#28

I also would recommend the french City of Carcasonne, plain beautiful.

#29

This is a hard one to explain :smile: Let’s start with saying Czech can be read letter-by-letter with just a few rules. Unfortunately there are some diacritic marks (total 3 of them in Stribrna) which make wovel sound longer (this is case with “i” and “a”) or change the sound of consonant (this is case of first “r” in that word).

Stƙíbrná -> St (as in start) rzh (try to say r as in root and zh close together) ee (as in beet) br (as in brow) naa (as na in British pronunciation of nasty)

I’ll leave Mrchojedy alive for a moment :slight_smile: just saying “ch” is single sound as in Scottish loch.

#30

http://translate.google.cz/#en/cs/mrchojedy
http://translate.google.cz/#en/cs/stƙíbrná%20skalice

Use a voice function in czech, it’s pretty accurate. :wink:

#31

Damn that sounds hilarious with English pronunciation.

#32

http://translate.google.cz/#en/cs/rataje

This^^ is hilarious in English. :smiley:

Ok, I’m trying to understand the mechanics behind this.
It sounds as there’s a very short ‘a’ between ‘m’ and ‘r’ (‘mr’ part of mrchojedy).

The ‘brn’ part seems to be the same as in Brno (BrĂŒnn).
Because I heard a very short â€˜ĂŒâ€™ sound as well.

(I know Brno because of the race circuit. ;))

Are my findings correct?
What do these “missing vowels” depend on?

Like ‘short ĂŒâ€™ after ‘r’, ‘short a’ after ‘m’ 
 ?

2 Likes
#33

I found some of the correct pronunciations on the site you linked (sound quality is a bit poor, unfortunately):
Stƙíbrná Skalice
Rataje nad SĂĄzavou

#34

Ah yes, I remember seeing a documentary about castles and their importance in medieval warfare, this Castle town was included.

#35

No, it’s not like this. There are no pronounced “missing vowels” at all. In czech language you pronounce every letter in a word exactly as it is, no more or less vowels, and every letter has still the same pronunciation no matter where it’s used (only few insignificant exeptions). And as there are no “missing vowels” there are not any unpronounced letters either. I’m no linguist so it’s hard to explain for me.

So in “Brno” or “stƙíbrná” there is no missing â€œĂŒâ€ after “r”, you simply pronounce only consonants as it is written. The same stands for “mrchojedy”, there is no “a” after “m”, just “mr” and you don’t pronounce anything more.

If you hear something like that in the google pronunciation, then it’s mistake, but I think it’s just your imagination, being used to different standards of your language, beacuse I don’t hear it there.

1 Like
#36

There are no missing vowels. In Czech ‘r’ and ‘l’ and to a certain degree ‘m’ and ‘n’ are syllabic and can stand for vowels, like in a tongue-twister ‘strč prst skrz krk’. BrĂŒnn is actually a German name for Brno (Same as Venice is English name for Venezia), it reads completely different.

#37

I’m also not a linguist.

Of course, there are no “missing vowels”. I just used it because of a lack of a better description. Nobody says consonants separately, as I heard in the examples (forvo.com) that’s also not the case in Czech. I didn’t expect anything else. My understanding is: when you form the sound of a letter in your mouth then it’s unavoidable that there will be a transition sound between this letter’s sound and the sound of the following letter so the transition is “smooth”. It’s just human. Just think of it like a little bridge which compensates for the height difference (end sound of the first letter and start sound of the following letter; just an example for better visualization, maybe it’s a bad example, i don’t know).
This very very short sound is what can be heard and what I made out to be more like an ‘a’ or â€˜ĂŒâ€™ and very likely other sounds for a different combination of consonants. Naturally, there are no such sounds if you say the letters separately but as soon as you connect them things change and you get these “byproducts”.

When I put these “missing vowels” I found between the particular letters it’s much easier to say them for myself (maybe also for other non-Czech people). It’s like a little guidance, so it’s easier to get the same sound. I could read them out in the way I would think it would be correct but it’s not exactly the same. Thus it’s better with these little “corrections”.

I also think that’s the reason why Brno is written BrĂŒnn or Brunn in other languages, to make it easier and more visible in written form.

Disclaimer: I did not use valid linguist terms. I just tried to describe how I think this works. And I’m not referring to Czech specifically, it’s more a general approach because other language have similar things. My initial question was to see if there are rules to this, if there are certain mechanics behind this, but obviously there are none for these kind of consonant constellations, at least in Czech as I know now.

How consonant sounds are formed in the mouth:
(sorry English only, but I don’t think they are completely different)
http://literacy.kent.edu/Midwest/Materials/ndakota/soup/consonants.pdf
http://emedia.leeward.hawaii.edu/hurley/Ling102web/mod3_speaking/3mod3.5.2_place.htm
http://chinook.kpc.alaska.edu/~ifasb/pages/sound_system_pages/consonant_chart.html

The pictures illustrate pretty good how the different consonant sounds are formed in the mouth.

Czech table:

[quote=“Wikipedia > Stop consonant”]
Stops contrast with nasals, where the vocal tract is blocked but airflow continues through the nose, as in /m/ and /n/[/quote]

In one word mouth and tongue have to form ‘m’ and then move to form ‘r’. In the other word it’s almost the other way around, from ‘r’ to ‘n’. (see table)

#38

Hmm I don’t get it. I can’t hear any particular sound between these consonants. Maybe just ehhhhhhh. Do you think these “byproducts” are only in combined consonants with “r” or any other? Because there is a big difference in pronunciation of “r” between czech and english, tongue is used completely different and I think this makes proper czech pronunciation of “mr” or “br” impossible for english speakers (and vica versa
).

I’ve never heard of such rules about czech pronunciation of combined consonants, and czech wiki doesn’t know it either, so I can’t help you.

#39

I’m totally impressed! Someone loves their math; and the colors are very pretty too (looks like a fireworks display, lol.) :smiley:

#40

I don’t think it’s impossible for any specific group of people to pronounce certain sounds. People who want to learn a language without accent just spend hours learning to mimic different phrases, without learning what they mean. Just forget how it’s spelled, and listen to how it is pronounced.

#41

Yeah, I love math :smile:
I’m trying to figure out how to do it, with a system that avoids crossing rivers and prefers to travel on roads. Should be pretty fun to see as well.
I just wish I had a way of defining areas efficiently.

© 2015 Warhorse Studios www.warhorsestudios.cz