Homosexuality In The Game/Time Period

[Madaras]

Hello my friends and follow backers of Kingdom Come Deliverance! I want to discuss a hot topic. I would first like to state please don’t simply gay bash here I would greatly appreciate your input and discussion on this subject.

So we all know homosexuality has been around in all species on the planet and especially notable in humans. Some societies accept it as normal and many do/did not. Discrimination is a very human thing to feel most humans like to be homogeneous things that break from the homogeneity of their world bother people. Since most people are heterosexual homosexuality does disturb the homogeneity people feel. So with this in mind and people how understand this aspect of history how do you think homosexual men in this time period met up? Secret rendezvous, was it more open in this part of the world. Was it like Iran where the leader would declare “There are no homosexuals here, where are they I do not see them” Clearly I believe they did exist especially in Catholicism with priest in part because they are not allowed to be with women. I also believe they existed in society, but what I want to know is how would you live and find love as a gay man in this time period?

[213]

they were castrated or burned

[War]

Interesting question. I’m terrible at this period of time and geographic area so I have no real answer to this question.
I can tell you all about ancient and feudal Japan though and homosexuality wasn’t a taboo thing. Not even sure it ever was.
Ancient Roman soldiers also practiced homosexuality since they were not allowed to marry.

Seems that history and time seems to be intertwining between “it’s okay” and “it’s not okay”. Was it just Catholicism that turned into a taboo or were there some other factors that turned it into a period of “not okay”?

[BlueEyedGator]

I’m certainly not n expert on the subject or the time period so I have no idea how meetings may have taken place but as for the clergy I feel sure that it wasn’t restricted to homosexuality. While it did, and still does, take place, some clergy (and even popes) did have mistresses and even families, even though they had taken vows and couldn’t marry. Then of course there is the issue of pedophilia which was all too real also.

[War]

I did find this:

[quote]
The church began to prosecute sexual sinners in the 12th and 13th centuries. Sodomy was punishable by death, which could involve mutilation, burning at the stake, hanging, and, in the case of priests caught in the act, being hung in a suspended cage until they starved to death. [/quote]
From here

Not the best source for anything, but I was pulling out notes and leaflets from my “Wit and Humor in the Renaissance” class and the closest thing to 1403 I have so far is “Beware the Cat” which means Catholicism in 1570 wasn’t all that popular and widely accepted yet(?)

[DeeLiberty]

Unfortunately, the homosexuality was badly persecuted. I hope they reflect it in the game, like having some quest where you discover homosexual couple and choose whether to help them or turn them in.

[213]

help them? i think you help them by closing the door and forgetting what you saw. i’d like to see more interesting quest though, maybe you can blackmail some homosexual with the information, this way it’s reflecting reality. henry is still a man of his time, not a time traveler.

[Dekssan]

Please no gays, lesbians, please. They are everywhere and i’m already sick of it. Not of them, but it’s “propaganda” as something normal so let’s help them. No, it’s not normal. Let them be, tolerate, but please, stop pushing them everywhere at every cost. Even games.

[Minute]

Please no gays, lesbians, please. They are everywhere and i’m already sick of it. Not of them, but it’s “propaganda” as something normal so let’s help them. No, it’s not normal. Let them be, tolerate, but please, stop pushing them everywhere at every cost. Even games.

Oh… you’re one of those people…

Anyway, back on topic. As a gay man myself, I can understand wanting to project a part of your identity onto the character, and not being able to do so can really impede immersion. All that considered, the dark ages were not known for their sweeping waves of tolerance, especially towards homosexuality. Personally, I feel if a bunch of medieval peasants and religious zealots started prancing about pretending that the 1400’s was the pinnacle of sexual tolerance would actually pull me out of the world faster than not being able to role play the character as myself.

Also, sorry WAR, somehow replied to you and made it seem like I was directing animosity towards you lol. I’m too tired for all this.

[Senseisenna]

i dont want a game where i fuck around, i want a game to play.
and the fuck i mean females and males…

[SerCabbage]

To be honest, I see where you’re coming from here. I’m not opposed to having such stuff in the game, but I’d find it annoying if its tacked on for the heck of it as is the case in many games/media these days just for the sake of it.

Like a lot of games with the obligatory bisexual romantic interests though it makes very little sense knowing them.

[SavageBeatings]

Sad to say, homosexuality was very much frowned upon. It even went so far as to the church holding the stance that all sex that isn’t procreational is sinful in later medieval period. I guess you could compare medieval times to nowaday Russia - you can be gay, but if you show it in public, you can be arrested and sentenced for propaganda. If you try and keep it secret but people take hint, they can lure you out and give you a beating, with witnesses, and the government turns the cheek.

Of course things like this differs from time period and location. In ancient Greece, it was status for an older man to have a young beautiful male lover. In the Roman empire, it was allowed for men as long as they took the dominant role. I’m also sad to say that homosexuality among women have very little recorded in many time periods. People only seemed to focus on men. Maybe girl on girl wasn’t considered intercourse as there is no penetration, unless you use a dildo, which resembles a penis anyways which makes it more ok?

[Kiwi]

You should be able to play as a gay character if you want to but if you do it should be as realistic as possible and based on history like the rest of the game.

As War said…
“Sodomy was punishable by death, which could involve mutilation, burning at the stake, hanging, and, in the case of priests caught in the act, being hung in a suspended cage until they starved to death.”

It should be a lot of fun for you running from the law or hanging around until you starve to death.

[Madaras]

Please no gays, lesbians, please. They are everywhere and i’m already sick of it.

So here’s one of the homogenizers I mentioned. I can’t blame them for feeling that way it’s human nature, as I mentioned above, to be intolerant of those different from yourself. That aside to address this statement directly.

You say “they are everywhere” Minute and I are not a they we are individuals You state “but it’s “propaganda” as something normal.” For us this is our normal. As normal as eating or drinking or breathing. Now show me where homosexuality is everywhere if you can. Personally I can count the number of game titles(not including sequels in a series) on one hand. That would be Mass Effect, Jade Empire, Dragon Age, and The Sims Which the first three are made by the same people. Also in Mass Effect, a male Shepherd was only allowed a small romantic interaction in the last game, which you had to try really hard to get through every(relationship related) action taken in the first and second game.

Now lastly I’ll state I’m not trying to “propagandize” homosexuality. This thread isn’t one that started off “ADD HOMOSEXUALITY IN THE GAME PLZ” then in the post state “It’s for realizism because they exist!” I asked very direct questions about how they existed in this time period. How they were treated in this geographic location. These are questions which may require some scholarly research, but I’m sure there are history buffs in this audience which may be able to provide relevant information.

[GODEFROY]

i agree with that, nobody cares about your sexuality so dont try to push it in every game like bioware usually do

[Madaras]

Hmm. If you want it that way then perhaps you should stop pushing heterosexuality on us in games. I could give you are large list of games where you can try and be friendly to a girl and then she jumps your bones instantly. (Beginning of The Witcher) This would also include bioware games like Mass Effect, and dragon age, but fortunately they have comments that make it clear what she’s about to do to you.

[Kiwi]

Games are made for a mass market and aimed at the majority. Sadly for you the majority of men that games are aimed at are not gay and most tend find it abnormal and or offensive. I am not saying that I personally have anything against gay people (my best friend is gay) but what I am saying to you is that you need to think about who this game will be marketed to. That is who the content will be targeted at.

If you really want there to be some gay content in the game then I suggest you look at making a mod for it. That is what I would do if I was you.

[Madaras]

I understand marketing well Kiwi. This topic is not about marketing.

[ProkyBrambora]

I agree that this post is not about adding homosexual content in the game.

Still there is no need to be rude to Dekssan because what he tells is true. Almost in every movie, series, book and game there is involved homosexuality.

And if you speak about normal you cannot thing about this word “normal” from your perspetive because ten even killing is normal (for killer). If someone is using world “normal” in relation to homosexuality he speaks about what is most common.

It is pure fact that homosexuality is abnormality from the bilogical point of view. Yes it is common in nature to observe this kind of behavior and therfore you can call it normal.

So what we have? Common abnormality.

I have nothing against homosexuals but if somone made loveparade for heterosexuals it would be seen as some kind of low porn-propaganda… so there goes tolerance and equality. Thats what I am sick of.

[Kiwi]

That is where you are wrong. It is all about marketing and selling as many copies of the game as possible.
The game company and its investors are not just doing all this for fun.

What the majority of the people want in this game is what you will get. Complaining about there being no gay people in it will not change anything. If you want to make a change to the game and have more gay content then you are free to add it yourself.

I will not waste my time arguing the facts with you anymore because it really is not an issue that is important to me.