I hope Henry won't "get the girl"

Story & Setting
#1

Continuing the discussion from To save a damsel in distress:

Yeah, so… I hope Henry won’t “get the girl”. What I mean is this: I hope the game’s story will be free of any “damsel in distress” fantasy/cliché, that usually runs as follows: dude sees girl is in trouble – dude thinks, “If I save her, she’ll fall in love with me” – dude helps girl – she then either instantly falls in love with him, or after some time quarreling.

But I don’t think this will be a problem, since you seemed to have reversed it and Henry is saved by the miller’s daughter at the beginning of the game. But still: I don’t even want Henry to be the “damsel” in distress!

Thus, if there be any romantic relationship planned for Henry, I just hope it won’t begin with “I saved you” or “You saved me,” or some other form of theatrical servitude (see edit).

What about a normal relationship, that begins with talking, straight and honest talking, ey?!??

Anyone backing me up on this?

[Edit] Are You a “Nice Guy”? (AskMen.com)

You are suffering from The Nice Guy Syndrome if:

• Your bill at the florist last year was more than your monthly house payment.
• Women often tell you that, “You are such a good listener.”
• When you arrive to pick up your date at her place, her cat isn’t even threatened by you.
• You didn’t go to a concert that you had tickets for because your female friend needed your help moving her furniture out of her abusive boyfriend’s apartment. (You do things for women that you’d really rather not do, but you pretend that you do not mind so that they will like you more.)

Does any of this sound familiar?

• You are more comfortable hanging out with women than men and you have few male friends.
• Your biggest thrill in the last few months came after you spent an entire Saturday fixing your foxy neighbor’s broken toilet and she said, “You are so sweet!”
• You avoid conflict with your girlfriend at all costs.
• Saying “No” to your girlfriend never enters your mind.
• It is difficult for you to put your own needs first. You think that if you do, you are being selfish.
• You consider yourself more sensitive and evolved than other men.
• The last time you got past second base was three Fourth of Julys ago at the neighborhood softball game.
• You pride yourself on not being like the other men who “only have one thing on their minds.” (You happen to have the same thing on your mind, but you hide it from women — and yourself.)
• You always ask for a woman’s permission before you try to kiss her on the cheek.
• Your emotional well-being is dependent on your girlfriend’s happiness. You are happy only when she is happy.

[Edit 2] Let me clarify what this thread is all about:

It’s about thinking that by doing certain things for a woman – and also pretending to be something which you are not – you can somehow “buy” her love.

Marriage System ( Family Lifestyle )
#2

By the way, I think the video game Braid (Number None, Inc., 2008) was partly about this…

#3

I dont know what is your relation with modern games, but that type of history isnt common-local ( i think the most successful of this type of game was Mario?). I can barely think Bohemia was that romantic that time, although Henry is a young man and can yet fall in love with that chic, but why wouldnt you want the game to be a “get the girl” one? Isnt every man life about having a woman? If we are going full realism, probably that is one of the most important things Henry have in his mind. Family, a woman. Wont say that happens in general, but we man, in most of the time, just do things to settle ourselfs a family and a home, dont we? But, as i said, Bohemia didnt seens like the most romantic place in Earth, and we dont even if Henry is going to live that long.

#4

Yeah, sure. I just don’t want the aforementioned cliché to be the basis or beginning of the relationship. Maybe he can save her after they’re already together for some time, perhaps married. You know, defend his family (if he’s going to have one). That would be more heroic, I think.

#5

like with most clichés/archetypes etc. it’s a matter of how you use them in a story - totally avoiding all of them is near to impossible.
If getting the girl is a cliché then so is getting the gold and if you don’t get a piece of the booty (either type :wink: ) then most motivations for quests vanish into thin air (technically THE “quest” is also a cliché, just saying)

in then end it comes down to how the story is told - excluding certain elements beforehand, without knowing any of the details, seems counter productive.

#8

You (or I) don’t get anything anyway besides a prefabricated fantasy – Henry gets. And maybe he could have nobler, more heroic motivations.

They have a chance to make out of Henry a true, selfless hero and not just a hypocrite running after “coin and cleavage”.

A humble, young blacksmith…

But I see why this would be difficult to implement in a game, since people usually don’t play one unless there’s something in it for them, even if it’s just a fantasy of power and/or romance.

Warhorse could do better. Remind the player of the mortality of the protagonist. The story could end with Henry dying.

#9

You mean that two young and healthy people who end up under the same roof in a time of civil war, who are facing the prospect of possible upcoming demise and have no TV to watch during long and cold spring evenings are unlikely to become physical, or god forbid, start a relationship?

1 Like
#11

No, that is not what I meant.

What I hope not to see is a “groupie”/“rockstar” relationship, a telenovela.

#12

sure, but you as player make decisions for Herny and decisions are about possibilities, and the reasons for making quests/driving the story in a certain direction are nice ways to give the player char a certain personality. Adding a selfless route doesn’t hurt, on the contrary, but that doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be any other ways to choose - besides humble doesn’t mean you have to help anyone for free (or even help at all).

that falls under the concept "how it is used/how the story is designed"
otherwise you could just have said: don’t write a bad story

1 Like
#13

Nope. You’ll get the king in distress. :badumts:

4 Likes
#14

But we’re not playing the king, that makes it completely different to what @sutton_hoo is referring.

#15

And for helping him out, Henry will be rewarded with knighthood and a castle…

Anyway, I’ll just leave this here and let you debate it. Cheerio! Na shledanou!

#16

I think getting the girl or not is an excellent opportunity to implement the choice system Warhorse has talked about. Once you chose certain dialogue or actions you can’t take them back. So the lady may become a love interest or a hated enemy. It’s all in how you play your character.

#17

this thread makes me think of Dragon Age. you have to gosh darn EARN those relationships, “saving” them or helping them is only a tiny part of those entangled webs.

i also look at this game with a slight game of thrones lens. saving the girl might be noble, but it’ll get you killed, straight up. but like many others on the thread have pointed out, context and story delivery really is everything when it comes to keeping it engaging. there are scenarios where “saving the girl” might only be a small part of the plot i.e. the village/castle they escape to is overrun while Henry was out on a mission for the lord, so he has to sneak in and save the lord, but he might also decide he wants to find out if she’s even alive, and if she is what’s happened to her, save her if possible, but with the priority being his lord and doing as much trojan horse style damage as possible to rout the attackers. or she’s being ransomed by bandits (god knows why, a miller’s daughter) but turns out these bandits are the ones with information Henry needs. what does he do? kill them to save her, and let the true enemy get away; or let them kill her, and while they do so taunt him into giving up the info he needs. or maybe he backs away and tries again a stealthy approach at night to get both, but that being much more difficult and prone to errors. i’d like to see some real moral/ethical/social dilemmas to be presented with where the choice you have to make doesn’t really have a “best” answer, and having those “you can do it all and save everyone” sequences to be pretty much non-existant.

1 Like
#18

@sutton_hoo you read too much stuff on the internet, so many stuff you posted in your previous topic that just relates to what people say without you actually experiencing it. You seem like that type of person who expects to get something from a girl when helping her out. As in you help her with groceries, she HAS to blow you. I would suggest going out and experiencing life and relationship for yourself.
As for Henry falling in love with someone, why not? It makes the game more immerse if you have to save your characters girlfriend, wife, mother, father, sister, brother. Thats what RPG games are about, you feel the experience, you feel how your character feels. When I played (sorry im posting another game title here) Red Dead Redemption, after that last mission I raced home to see ‘‘my’’ family because thats whats mostly the game has been about, seeing my family again. And it felt good when they were there, I felt happy for my character.

1 Like
#19

the correct answer is who cares. it’s very likely “getting the girl” is up to player discretion so asexuals don’t feel underrepresented or something. :wink:

1 Like
#20

And even if we get the girl, we could lose her later on. That’s more of a tragedy than not getting her.

3 Likes
#21

This is how 9/10 Hollywood movies work. I don’t like it in movies, I don’t like it in games.

2 Likes
#22

“Just when I thought I was out… they pull me back in.”

I do? Well… thanks for telling me!

Yep. I did all of this hoping to impress @Anna the Fair, my Dulcinea! :wink: :blush:

1 Like
#23

Most of them don’t even pass the “Bechdel test:”

  1. It has to have at least two women in it,
  2. who talk to each other,
  3. about something besides a man.
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