First of all, my family and I are stricktly PC Windows gamers. That said, I care about the Linux/Mac OS releases, because they WERE promised in Kickstarter, when I backed the game. A long time before ANY “planned” console version got the required certificate from Sony and Microsoft. And what happened in the end - these consoles took the lead path, as it happened so many times before with other games. PC release delayed, Mac/Linus abandoned probably. But why? I guess that kiddy hype console train just brings too much money to the table, money which very few people could refuse. And I do believe that @warhorse has the intention to make Deliverance a great game and to fulfill all their promises! The problem is that they just can’t, mostly because of console development taking too much of their efforts. When there is a dilemma between PC and consoles regarding the gameplay, interface, graphics, etc, they will unfortunately choose the console way. Sad, but true. Just my 2 cents…
I guess around mid 2017 we PC gamers will finally understand if our backing and waiting are worth it.
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Are you joking? The Kingdom Come Kickstarter campaign was launched January 2014. A next-gen OpenGL wasn’t even announced until August, and Vulkan itself wasn’t even named until February of the following year. So, you’re saying that they promised Linux support in January 2014 with a release date of December 2015, having miraculously known in advance both that A) a new graphics API would be in the works seven months down the road, and B) that it would be stable and public by the projected release date of December 2015? Get a grip.
Surely not joking, merely “guessing/assuming”.
I can’t believe War Horse intentionally advertised Linux support to “steal money” from kickstarters to later remove the Linux support for no valid reasons. Nor will we ever know what was the % of Linux backers against mainstream platform backers, and whether or not this played a role in their decision.
I however believe gaming in 2016 should be doable on PC, Linux or Mac Os, because it never has been easier for developers to deliver on 3 platform, but I surely don’t know enough about game development to assess whether this rather simplistic view is true. I know some game companies do it well, however, you can’t expect to play more than 5% of the current PC title on Linux / Mac OS natively (meaning without wine emulation) so it’s still a niche, unfortunately.
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can i also have a refund
So many crushed hopes & dreams, first no Linux beta, then no Linux release… whats next? Never Linux support?
Please send me instructions on how to request a refund (or provide proof that game is coming to Linux)
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Maybe they should have thought about that before announcing support for Linux/OSX on Kickstarter. If it’s such a small market anyway, they surely could have done well without those pesky Linux/OSX backers.
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AFAIK, the PS4 uses a proprietary and custom Low Level API and absolutely not Open GL. source. I wouldn’t mind to be told wrong if you have the sources for it though !
No argument there. Linux represents 0.83% of the PC market when it comes to OS, Mac around 3.3% (but as someone said, there ain’t really the hardware). As for the source, they are here.
PC Gaming has been, on games like TW3, about 30-35% (source). 5% of 30% is 1.5% potential revenue… So there are no arguments it’s not viable economically.
But that’s irrelevant, there ain’t any argument either on the fact Warhorse should never have mentionned Linux / Mac Os X in their kickstart, unless they knew whatever they were planning would be compatible with it straight from the start. I can’t speak for them and tell you what changed (if anything) for them to scrap this, but unfortunately, in 2016 releasing games for Linux / Mac OS X is still very much an act of militant-ism/philosophy rather than a purely benefit guided action. Even for AAA companies, 1.5% market share is still very limited.
I’d be very happy to see more Vulkan games, but I believe the only guys who can actually make this happen is Valve, through encouragement via Steam. Higher revenue for developers if their game work on Linux natively (via OGL or Vulkan) would probably help plenty !. Oh, and Microsoft can actually make it happen too, if they continue to do the wrong things with the UWP.
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[quote=“Nolenthar, post:17, topic:29753, full:true”]
AFAIK, the PS4 uses a proprietary and custom Low Level API and absolutely not Open GL. source. I wouldn’t mind to be told wrong if you have the sources for it though ![/quote]
You are correct. I had imagined it would be much like the PS3, whose graphics API was based on OpenGL 2.0. PS4 is more low level, though.
[quote=“Nolenthar, post:17, topic:29753, full:true”]
But that’s irrelevant, there ain’t any argument either on the fact Warhorse should never have mentionned Linux / Mac Os X in their kickstart, unless they knew whatever they were planning would be compatible with it straight from the start. I can’t speak for them and tell you what changed (if anything) for them to scrap this, but unfortunately, in 2016 releasing games for Linux / Mac OS X is still very much an act of militant-ism/philosophy rather than a purely benefit guided action. Even for AAA companies, 1.5% market share is still very limited.[/quote]
Wondering if perhaps the numbers of Linux/OSX backers on Kickstarter are more significant? Linux support is definitely a criteria for me, as are physical releases.
As much as I applaud Valve for their Linux effort, to me it looks like they lost a bit of steam as of late. I guess they are still too comfortable on Windows, and Microsoft isn’t pushing aggressively enough for their own walled garden ;-).
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That wouldn’t surprise me much, I could really see why a Linux playerbase would have been appealed both by the ambition of the game and its (eventually dropped) native Linux support. Linux playerbase may be made up of a higher proportion of idealist, anti-AAA monopolistic companies and may be more likely to back “small” projects via Kickstarting.
I don’t know if Warhorse somehow has the number. If they do, this is likely to confirm that this was probably not enough to make them change their mind.
I Also hope Linux support comes at some point. I really do not like windows 10 and would like to move away from the dependency to play games only via windows.
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The best laid plans of mice and men…
It happens.
WINE all you want?
Joined 5 hours ago and making rediculous posts like this? I see you haven’t contributed to the game either so why should your opinion matter? You sound like a troll.
I’m happy someone shares my opinion ;). Between this and the locked post, I’d say we have our answer.
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That’s not really correct. The measured marketshare of Linux on desktop computers in this month is about 2.11% and the Mac marketshare is 7.37%. It has been just 1.65% in April and now it’s over 2% the third time in a row after 2.33% last month. The Linux desktop might be small but within the last months it became a fast-growing market.
Of course the Steam survey might look as a more accurate statistic when it comes to gaming at the first moment. But it’s not really as accurate as you might think:
If my informations are correct Steam Machines(SteamOS/Linux) do not appear in the survey. Also many people are starting Steam through Wine to make Windows games playable. So Steam won’t recognize these computers as Linux machines. Lots of them are running dualboot systems which can also distort the numbers. As an example I dualboot Windows 7 because I have many older games that only work on this system because projects like OpenMW, OpenRW etc. are sadly pretty uncommon. But I also don’t buy new games without Linux support anymore.
Of course the gamers do mostly still stay with Windows while many of the Netmarketshare- counts for Linux are non- gaming machines. So the lower numbers in the Steam survey are reasonable to some extend. But reading things like “I quit gaming 10 years ago to use Linux and it was the best decision I ever made” show that it’s just the chicken-and-egg problem.
According to the Linux sales of the game SOMA, which were about 1.1%(which was just a rough estimate by Frictional Games and, according to gamingonlinux.com includes PS4 sales) I would see the Linux- sales’ potential definitely at about 2% of the buyers for the PC platform for an average game. Adding that “nerds” love Linux and “nerds” love medieval RPGs there is no doubt for me that in this case these sales could be significantly higher for Kingdom Come: Deliverance than for SOMA.
Another point is the lack of sophisticated medieval RPGs on Linux. I guess the only significant one we have is Morrowind through OpenMW and Witcher II, which are quite outdated so many people already finished them. The other games are more action titles like Tomb Raider, Shadow of Middle Earth, Bioshock. So there is an immense lack of this genre.
So when you write:
[quote=“Nolenthar, post:17, topic:29753”]5% of 30% is 1.5% potential revenue… So there are no arguments it’s not viable economically.
[/quote]
I’m quite sure that you are seriously underestimating the overall sales for Linux and Mac computers.
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I’m absolutely unbiased in that discussion. I do not underestimate, nor overestimate anything. I do apply simple maths, using numbers available to me (Steam survey, sales of a game such as TW3) to make a calculation. I do not claim this calculation to be absolutely accurate, nor absolutely valid. I simply position myself in the skin of a potential developer (I’m a member of a software company, so those are things I do understand to an extent) having to spend money for a platform. Unfortunately, even by growing up the number to even 10% of PC users (which is twice my previous figure). 10% of 30% is still a very small market share.
As you do say yourself, many Linux users are ready to dual boot. There are “extremists” (and I double quote that because this is a strong word and I do not want this to be interpreted the wrong way) who have a mind of their own and who are ready to sacrifice their gaming compulsion for their philosophy (aka, Linux users who would rather not play a game than dual boot to Windows). For a company though, the only users lost are them. The others, those ready to dual boot to Windows, are not lost. Sure, you’re not supporting their favourite platform, and sure, they are not likely to become blind loyal customers, but they will buy your game if it’s good, even if it means dual booting to Windows.
Windows 10 may provide, to many, a real border they won’t cross. Direct X 11 (still poorly/not supported by Wine) is available on Windows 7. “Unofficial Activation” patch exists for it. Windows 10, Direct X 12. That’s another matter. Steam survey reports Windows 10 users are slightly below 50%. Windows 8.1 users around 8%, 48% of Windows able to run DX12 games use a legit version. The 28% still running Windows 7. They simply don’t, or don’t have the hardware capable of running it.
That’s where it becomes important. DX12 will open the door to a wider support of Vulkan. Surely, developers can go the DX12 route, which opens both the XBox and the PC, so many will do it. However, with DX11 losing steam, and Vulkan gaining it, Linux support will become more important. Windows 7 users (legit or not) will also enjoy Vulkan.
Linux users will have to roughly wait a couple of years before this becomes the norm. I’d be surprised if by 2018, 2019, 90% of games don’t release with Vulkan support, along with Linux / Mac Os support.
Unfortunately, for KCD, the latest comms point to the fact that it’s unlikely to happen. Unless the game works very well, and that the money is nowhere spent better : if you want to play this game, it’s still time to get a copy of Windows. In the end, anyone owning a gaming computer shall go the extra mile and get a 100£ software. It’s the equivalent of 2 games and will open up 95% of the gaming catalogue. Any PC player shall simply go this route for the time being.
I just wanted to explain why these numbers are pretty inaccurate from my perspective.
I would estimate the Linux sales at about 0,7% of all platform sales, it’s a big title with a great popularity, there is a niche in the Linux market and the suitable audience - so the setting for a Linux release is optimal. The project has gained 2.7 Million $, and they didn’t want more. I had opened a thread for Mantle support as a new stretch goal, today it would be Vulkan.
So when you don’t want more money to realize your whole agenda including Linux support, there should be at least 2.700.000 * 0,007 = 18.900 Dollars of the whole budget to realize an acceptable Linux implementation - which just means making the existing project run on Linux natively. Not rewriting the whole engine.
So I still hope that KCD will be ported to a newer CryEngine- version as soon as the Vulkan support is implemented, just like many other games that have initially been released with only DX11 or OGL- support, adding Vulkan or DX12 support later.
As far as I know Vulkan can also run pretty well on Metal with MoltenVK.
Ok first of this is an ad hominem attack. That said.
This retard here. (why italics you ask? well because emphasis)
He gives a shit about the community for a single player game.
Weak skills man. Find a new career path you suck as a troll.
While your antics are retarded, they are amusing so im gonna sit back and watch this shit unravel.
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I’m not under the impression that this is a pure money issue, but rather a problem of technical nature that would be far more resource-intensive to overcome.
Even if this weren’t the case, this $19k figure of yours does not take into account Kickstarter fees, taxes and backer rewards. So without even making a single Dime on Linux backers, the funds available would be less. I’d hope that Warhorse pays their developers a decent salary, but even if not, what remains of those $19k will not buy that many man hours for porting, testing, testing, testing and the inevitable bugfixing and then more testing, not to forget the after-sales support, patching and yet more testing.
But with all that being said, I do not hope that the Linux version hinges on some beancounters’ decision, but is something that Warhorse is compelled to do, because they are fine, honest gentlemen that stick to their word :-).
Why is there still no proper statement from Warhorse?
The kickstarter funds may not be all of it, but our funding is a part of the salary to the developers. In my book that means that they should be accountable to us. Removing a feature that you can’t deliver - it happens.
BUT
They need to tell us whether they definitely will not deliver it and they need to tell us what the problem is.
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I agree , even if it is a delayed release, I would be happy just knowing a yes or no answer.
I feel Linux has potential for gamers and people are getting fed up with windows, so I really think it could help to promote the availability of high quality titles for a future market.
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