Open Letter to Warhorse Studios

Gameplay
#10

People should remember that the game is still in beta - especially when talking about crashes or corrupted save games. As for AI, from the many videos and the game itself it’s evident that the game does NOT use traditional set-in-stone NPC routines. Saying that the programming department lacks skills is a pretty bold statement to make without any supporting evidence… I’d even say it’s borderline ignorance. However in my opinion choosing a somewhat unproven AI system for the game is really quite a gamble.

The combat system has some issues, but it was publicly known from the beginning that it will be based around stamina and I don’t think this is going to be changed. I’m not a huge fan of the system so far but frankly I don’t even care much for realism in combat, I just want it to be fun, so I leave this for other users to discuss. Lots of people say the combat in Skyrim was stupid hack’n’slash, but with a few mods and increased diffculty I found it very entertaining. Not saying Skyrim was perfect, but Bethesda made load of money selling it and that counts too.

I don’t see any issue with pacing, Warhorse that combat will not be a constant occurence in this game. On the other hand this places a lot of pressure on the quality of writing and non-combat gameplay. So far I’m mostly satisfied with the quests.

1 Like
#11

Combat isn’t an incredibly rare thing either. Outside the immediate area of Pribyslavitz there are 15 ‘enemies’ you can engage, (a few of which respawn apparently), plus you can pick fights with at least three quest NPC who are theoretically neutral/on your side as legitimate quest paths.
Add the arena and clearing out Pribyslavitz and you have ample combat for a small slice of the game. IMO

#12

Thank you for your letter @Cepheiden, this gives us a good view from the outside perspective. However, the combat system is deeper then you think. The direction does matter, you can parry faster if you are in the right direction, you are able to attack different zones if your enemy does have various armor there, and feints would be not possible without directional attack zones, you can fight around the block of your enemy and your opponent can do this too. The directions of attack are not pointless as you say, there is a deeper design behind it.

The enemies not attack bug does have the same problem as the AI system for now, complex AI. It is possible that the AI does need a lot of time to react because the full AI tree is acitvated. But we already have solutions for this problems, it is just a lot of work. We know how to engage this problems, that we have to find routines when wich AI tree hast to be turned off, and when to be turned on, to make standardisations in the AI. But before you can make this, you need to build up the framework of the AI system. You can´t cut down what is not there.
Therefor we don´t see any reason why we should change the approach here, the system is not failed, it is just not finished yet.

And about the parcing. Combat is a part of this game, but Kingdom Come Deliverance is not about combat, it is a story driven RPG, it is about making decisions. The only decision you make in a novel is to continue reading it.

2 Likes
#13

In what way are any of those believable? KC:D actually has realistic combat, unlike those games, which have choppy, and cartoony looking fights.

2 Likes
#14

I fully agree with the OP regarding the combat system. I would add on top, that it is not really suited for keyboard and mouse control and it is rather gamepad tailored. I must admit myself, that I am pretty disappointed by the current combat system - I was expecting something like Exanima (also in “beta status”) in the first person, but I’ve got clumsy, simplistic and not well controllable (by K&M) system.
And combat system is the most important feature of the game, so it should be well polished.

On the other hand:

  • I had no issue with save&load, so I do not share the concern.
  • the pace of the game is fine for me; while I also like games with a lot of action&combat more similar to movies than to written “novels”, it is far from realistic and not really suitable for this type of game. From Kingdom Come, I would expect and enjoy rather slow and careful pace of a written “novel”, than adrenaline-packed movie-like experience.
  • pricing should be realistic - agree with OP; I have not experienced any opportunity to buy or sell weapons, so I do not know…
#15

Are you forgetting that this game is nearly a year from release?

#16

Are you forgetting that this game is nearly a year from release?

No, I am not. I hope it will be well polished in final release. And I am raising my concerns, because I want to influence the devs in a positive way towards better combat system.

#17

Not sure how many hours you’ve sunk into the beta, and I can tell that you’re new here, so welcome… but to make a comment like the above (in fact, to write an open letter in the tone and manner you have) tells me that your understanding of the systems and mechanics involved here are bordering on ignorance.

Constructive feedback and criticism is one thing, but to straight up shoot down all the hard work the devs and entire WH team have put in over the past 2-3 years is frankly just plain rude.

If you’re such the expert on AI, integrated combat systems, and games programming… then please feel free to constructively enlighten the team and all us onlookers.

I await your solutions with some eagerness.

6 Likes
#18

Дураку полработы не показывают. Dunno how to say it in english right.

#19

That is hard with Kickstarter.

#20

This is what i got from google translate,

"Fool polraboty not show"
but I’m guessing it’s not even close to what you actually said.

#21

Meant Literary. A similar proverb.

Fool half the work does not show.

#22

Dont show half the work to a fool? -> Pearls before swine.

#23

I love the slower pacing, and the lack of a rush to battle. That’s one of the main reasons I backed this game!!
Never played blade, but the combat in KD is very intense and realistic. You have to employ more patients than ay RPG I’ve ever played. The kinetic feel after striking a blow is very rewarding. Most RPG’s feel like ur slicing through cheese. Oblivion attempted this but no where near as profound.

Love what the devs are doing, keep up the good work!!

6 Likes
#24

It’s a pretty good translation, правилно думаю что перевод близко: “Half of a fool’s work doesn’t show”?

#25

Yes the resulting animations look more realistic in KC:D, but due to control issues just about everything else is less realistic.

#26

No, this is a bad translation, because it implies the developers to be fools who had shown half a work. The original statement is made in passive which is more common in Russian than in English and which Google Translate is pretty bad at. The proper translation implies that the user who doesn’t understand that the work shown is actually half the work and criticizes it like a complete one is a fool. The sensible translation is “Don’t show half the work to a fool” and a word-for-word translation is “A fool is not shown half the work to”.

Sorry for the offtop.

4 Likes
#27

I sort of agree with the original letter although I understand that game is in the …
There’s a problem, I won’t call it alpha or beta, but rather “tech preview” without stating that game will be released this summer. I initially had much higher expectations. A number of features that are unfinished and broken is simply too high and it does not need public testing yet although some feedback can be priceless for developers.
In my opinion beta should not contain features that are unfinished and bugs that are way too obvious or it should clearly state them in release notes. And release date should not be known to public, it should be internal deadline to keep reasonable pressure on developers even if everyone knows that it’s nonsense, cause it’s too obvious to people with some experience from work.

OT: I can completely understand that AI can be easily broken one way or other even if a cause is in small detail. Just imagine that every person needs some task list with priorities that can change with time (e.g. “EAT something”, “go to SLEEP”, “WORK”, “WASH yourself” depending on daytime (habit) and actual need (hunger) and another set of priorities given by crime system, proximity (“RUN away”, “call GUARD”, “KILL someone”). To make it even worse there must be some randomness (to prevent all the villagers stopping the work and going home at the same time) and people must react according to other people’s reaction (one or two guys running for a guard are enough). To make it worse even further people need some plans (e.g. how to get to field) and to interact with environment and others and solve some funny little problems (meeting their beloved ones in the door), talking with you … there’s certainly not much that can possibly go completely wrong or against common sense :slight_smile: … certainly not if plan can have several branches based on information and if it needs some timing and prediction (it’s not the best idea to visit someone at 3am) or start journey across the map just before sunset.

#28

Actually the release date will be released this summer. ^o^

1 Like
#29

I agree! I’ve trained some HEMA and that is fast paced as hell. I doubt it’s possible to do the same speed ingame because you won’t be able to react (since it need to be done in the blink of an eye and movements are trained to be automatic) and then combat would be truly terrible. :slight_smile:

© 2015 Warhorse Studios www.warhorsestudios.cz