Origin story/background for skills

Gameplay
#1

Now hear me out before you think I want to change the story or what have you. As I was commenting on a thread about archery, I was thinking how much work (years upon years) goes into learning how to use a sword or bow properly. It seems silly that a blacksmith’s son would be able to grab a longbow (or any bow for that matter if you’ve ever tried to shoot one) and use it remotely effectively without any sort of training.

So my idea: what if there was some sort of combat background, where you choose what your character might have specialized in. Say he worked at the longbow since he was a child, as a hobby or his grandfather taught him. Well now when he finds it time to actually use it, he’s not some schmuck walking onto a battlefield trying to figure out how to string his bow, but he’s a fairly effective archer (with room to improve, wouldn’t make much of a good RPG without progression).

Same with single handed swords. Say you’re a blacksmith’s son (a trend, eh?) and you’ve helped make swords or axes and the like, but in your offtime, maybe you trained a bit with them. Maybe you were training fodder for the knight’s squires, and picked up a bit of knowledge on the way.

Or two handed swords, or polearms, or even charming people, or pilfering pockets. I’d find it hard to believe that some nubile man walks in with little combat experience would be able to pick up a weapon and know the basics without some kind of background training. Or be able to charm someone without having chatted up some townsfolk.

That’s where the “origin” would come in. Pick the sword when you’re starting, and your character will have some background with the sword and know how to use it when you come into the game. Pick the bow, and you’ll have a serious advantage with it. Maybe later you can purchase training for other weapon classes. I feel like this would be a part of the character’s experience, because how boring would if be if you could pick up any weapon and use it as if you knew what the hell you were doing.

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#2

no, he’s a blacksmith, that’s part of the story. his specialty is swords. deal with it.

#3

Where do you get the idea that “his specialty is swords?” Yes, we see him using one in the livestream, but the devs also said that no other weapons had been implemented yet. I don’t see why a blacksmith should automatically be an expert in fighting with swords as opposed to making them.

As for what the OP said: I suggested something vaguely similar here. The idea of doing it through ‘origin stories’ is an interesting one.

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#4

Origin is just a word, it’s more like a specific training background, but with some story elements blended it, to give it context.

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#5

I actually kind of like this idea although using the term origin stories is likely to upset people as it already has. It’s not really an entire origin story but rather little change-able pieces that affect skills.

:smile: That’s the second time I’ve posted the same thing as someone else at the same time.

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#6

he’s around swords his whole life, he knows a thing or two about them.

#7

You know, blacksmiths do plenty of things. Not all of them make weapons or even are able to make them. So being an blacksmith != knowledge about swords.

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#8

Of course, he’s going to know about how they work and the importance of weighting them properly and things like that. But that isn’t the same thing as actually being able to fight with them. I’m hardly an expert on the subject, but everything I’ve read about swordfighting suggests that it takes years to learn to handle one properly in combat. The fact that we see Henry use one in the demo suggests that he may have some training already - if this stays the same for the final release - but there’ll also be other weapons in the final game, so presumably there has to be a possiblity that he’s trained with those as well (or instead).

@ Dekssan: true, but we see him sharpen a sword in the demo, which suggests he has at least some knowledge about them.

#9

i would bet that if i made shoes all my life, i know more about shoes that typical person. if i made guns my whole life, i know guns inside and out, if i made swords…

i mean it’s not a hard concept to understand.

#10

If you knew how to make shoes and did it for 30 years, would you know how to dance?

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#11

shoes have lots of uses, swords, not.

it’s more like, if you made rifles for 30 years, would you know how to shoot? i’ll bet, yes.

#12

Um, no, actually - not unless you were involved in testing them as well. Do you think working in a car factory automatically makes you a good driver?

#13

Well, I’m sure you would, but not as a consequence of knowing the anatomy of a rifle.

#14

This guy is not a blacksmith! He’s the son of one so he knows a little bit about swords and they’re creation. Sword fighting and the different stances and moves used are not learned by just helping your father make swords. His father probably wouldn’t know very much about sword fighting either in comparison to a man-at-arms.

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#15

i think testing comes with territory. why you learn where to place the center of gravity, why pummels and hilts are designed a certain way, etc.

medieval jobs aren’t like modern jobs, where lots of the work are replaced with machinery, third party q/a, etc. i suspect young henry would have been at the very least, comfortable with handling swords.

also, paladin, that’s wrong. he was proficient at the grinder, meaning he already knows how to do it. people in medieval times had to learn their jobs at a very early age.

though i agree, he wouldn’t be a fighter. i think that’s something yet to be revealed by the story. maybe as a favor to his father, the lord has trained him. henry’s friends seem to be soldiers already.

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#16

I’m guessing it’s pointless to debate it with you, but what else am I going to do.

If you race a car (use a sword) very well, can you break down how to build one (smith a sword from ore)? Surely you would know what makes a good car, handling (balance), horsepower (strength and flexibility), etc. But could you build one? Swords are a lot more complex than you think they are, the steel has to be just the right mix of strength and flexibility. I doubt a knight will know how to make one, but he’ll know what to look for.

The same applies to the opposite. If you know how to build a car, does that mean you know how to straighten a curve, or the best way to shift into the next gear? To a degree, but not as much as you would if you drove that car over and over.

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#17

I agree. That’s still not the same thing as being able to fight with them. Knowing how to make something well is not the same thing as knowing how to use it well for its intended purpose, because the skillsets they require may be very different (e.g. in my example of a car, engineering knowledge vs. practical knowledge of how to drive).

The devs have never said the main character ‘specialises in swords’ or anything even close. Yes, he makes them and may possibly have some training, but equally he may make other weapons and have training with those as well. There’s no way to know at this stage, unless the devs choose to reveal more about Henry’s background.

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#18

There is a reason every other nation besides England used crossbow mercenaries instead of longbow men.

Another point though is that learning to shoot a longbow in itself is not ‘that’ hard. Within 4 years you would certainly be able to hit something the size of a car at 150 meters. The target you would have on the battlefield however is a body of men nearing the thousands and you would fire in volleys.

What the English really trained for was natural shooting or shooting by instinct where you just know how to hit something instead of gauging the distance by the terrain etc. More importantly perhaps is the draw weight those bows had.

185 lbs or 82kg

That is frigging immense. For hunting elephants in Africa folks use bows with a draw weight of around 100 lbs.
Not a lot of people will just pick up a bow of that poundage and even managed to pull the string back. To achieve such a draw you would indeed need to train years upon years.

So if the main character uses a hunting bow that would not really be a problem folks and blacksmiths back then even more were hardy people, but if he uses an English warbow we should put a questions mark behind that.

#19

That’s what I’m trying to say, if he had trained in it, for a significant part of his life, then he’d be pretty good at it. Hence why being able to choose a background that involves archery would let him be fairly lethal with a warbow, for those that want to use a bow more than anything else. As well, a sword will be necessary at some point, and he could still be trained in the sword, but a better focus on the bow.

Also, 185lbs was the most extreme of the pull strengths, but the point remains the same. So if they decide to implement longbows in the game as a viable weapon, it would be reasonable to have the character have some sort of background training in it. Hence, origin

#20

His uncle was a Fletcher? He did some hunting (or poaching if hunting is illegal)?

A crossbow would make more sense though.

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