The myth of arrow quivers on the back

Combat system
#48

This is not true.
First, we consider Eastern Europe 14th.
Second, even if taken in a general Eurasia , the ancient Egypt and America fall .
In the ancient period used gorit-quiver

Later, it’s time for the bowcase and cylindrical quiver .

Then flat quiver replaced cylindrical quiver.

Example of China failed. There’s a classic set of flat quiver. It is a small and highly visual arrows sticking out .

Це не так.
По-перше, ми розглядаємо Східну Европу 14 ст.
По-друге, якщо навіть брати в загальному Евразію, то античний Египет та Америка відпадають.
В античний період використовували горити
Пізніше прийшов час комплектів з чохлом для луку та циліндричного сагайдака.
Далі плаский колчан витіснив циліндричний.
Приклад з Китаєм невдалий. Там класичний комплект з пласким сагайдаком. Він невеликий і стріли візуально високо стирчать.

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#49

I agree. Bow weren`t as popular as in England and what you said about nobles is definetly true. But I simply think that bow were used in battles that time at least in some small numbers by soldiers - I do not insist that it was main weapon.

BTW : The second picture seems to showing different arrows tips and also showing “S” curved, short bow - perhaps made of one piece? Just find it interesting

#50

At least you can guess, that everything was used as a “quiver” that fits the means. I made meself an arrow bag ones. It did not make it for long, but it souldn’t as well. Just an improvisational-thingy. But since that, I always wanted to try to produce some longer-lasting bag. Didn’t had the time nor materials yet. =/
Also I forgot my quiver last two shooting days… Arrrh that sucked…-.-

#51

I think we have a misunderstanding here. I didn’t say anything about the shape or material of the quiver used at the time or anytime else. I just stated that many quivers were used with a strap to carry them (on whatever location on your body).

#52

that doesn’t really make sense and the animation would be problematic. you’d have to remove the strap, retie around your belt.

they should just have waist carry quivers.none of the examples you showed are medieval europe. and all of the medieval european examples show quiver on side.

#53

Back quivers were used in medieval Europe, as the Bayeux tapestry shows.
Eat your heart out …

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Archery mechanics [Mod thoughts]
#54

game doesn’t takes place in 1066 so that example can be disregarded

#55

Need I say more … you disqualify yourself.

#56

I think it is pretty clear that both was done.
But note that the guy in armour have it on the hip.

I do think that archers (soldiers using bows) did primarily wear their arrows in a bag on the hip.
Where hunters might have preferred the back…

If you need to carry lots of arrows. like 24+ I do think a bag on the hip is better than a quiver on the back…

But I don’t think we really can rule out any of the two methods.

So I think they should just have more then one type of “container to carry arrows in” quivers for x arrows that goes on the back. and “arrow bags” with a larger capacity that goes on the hip.

#57

God bless Google search!!!
http://forum.kingdomcomerpg.com/uploads/default/3760/ff72826bb77c6cbc.jpg

I see three quiver at the belt and one behind.
Я бачу три сагайдака біля поясу та один за спиною.


Archery practice at earthen butts, c1325.

Woman archer shooting a rabbit blunt at a rabbit. Taymouth Hours, England, 1325 - 40

Archers behind a Mock Cow Approaching Deer - http://search.getty.edu/museum/records/musobject?objectid=2485

To be continued.

#58




From: http://www.fioredeiliberi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2431
http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/Visualiseur?Destination=Mandragore&O=08101684&E=230&I=117201&M=imageseule
http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/Visualiseur?Destination=Mandragore&O=08101685&E=209&I=118521&M=imageseule
http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/Visualiseur?Destination=Mandragore&O=7830832&E=1&I=74679&M=imageseule
http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/Visualiseur?Destination=Mandragore&O=08100553&E=96&I=77836&M=imageseule
http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/Visualiseur?Destination=Mandragore&O=08100553&E=201&I=77941&M=imageseule
http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/Visualiseur?Destination=Mandragore&O=8100128&E=7&I=22590&M=imageseule

http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/Visualiseur?Destination=Mandragore&O=8100039&E=197&I=16855&M=imageseule
http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/Visualiseur?Destination=Mandragore&O=07904160&E=1&I=46131&M=imageseule

Lots of pictures - http://larsdatter.com/archers.htm

Useful materials and articles.
The Personal Carriage of Arrows from Hastings to the Mary Rose http://archive.4plebs.org/foolfuuka/boards/tg/image/1368/98/1368987136013.pdf

The 15th Century Archer: http://www.historiclife.com/pdf/kasf2008/15thcenturyarcher.pdf

European Medieval and Renaissance Archery Contests And Targets http://www.zateev.net/ontarget/download/Sir%20Jon%20article.pdf

Making the Medieval Arrow Bag



youtube
-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkYaMAdgBKI
-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWPpMg6WHbc

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#59

it’s correct. you only showed the bayeux tapestry after i made the comment. i was talking about this thread, obviously.

in any case, it’s needless extra work on animation. during this time, it was mostly carried on waist, so one complete animation for one quiver type is enough.

#60

I have seen those canvas arrow ‘bags’ for sale, personaly I want to save up for a nice leather one to attach to my belt.

Having tried to stuff them through my belt, as depected in one of your pictures, I personaly recommend not to, for me te belt was either too tight or too loose to sucesfully hold the arrows there and it snagged my dress.
As for where people wore their quivers, it looks like it is just down to prefference and what ever practily better for the individual archer.

#61

My “Bayeux tapestry”-post wasn’t aimed at you directly. Battle gear has always been a matter of personal preference; look at (eg.) the number of different M4 carbine chest rigs and harnesses on today’s battlefield. And that’s only for the M4. The middle ages would have been no different, and in that light (and supported by the Bayeux tapestry) a back quiver in the middle ages is not a myth but a likely possibility.

#62

In my region easier with this. We use cylindrical quivers from birch bark for reconstruction of the Middle Ages and flat leather quivers for 16-17th. But for the Czech, choosing the correct quiver turns into a problem. It is interesting how many arrows protagonist is fire during combat / hunting in the game. If not enough, then perhaps most simple option is to render arrows in his belt. And add the possibility of pick up arrows.
В моєму регіоні простіше з цим. Ми використовуємо циліндричні сагайдаки із берести для реконструкцій середніх віків та пласкі шкіряні сагайдаки для 16-17ст. А от для Чехії, вибір правильного сагайдака перетворюється у певну проблему. Цікаво, наскільки багато стріл головний герой має вистрілити під час бою/полюванні у грі. Якщо мало, то можливо самий простий варіант це промальовка стріл за поясом. Та додати можливість підбирати стріли.

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#63

for that comparison to work, you need to find a primary or secondary source showing back quivers being used in the time period this game tapes place.

also, it doesn’t matter. why spend time making 2 quiver types at average quality, with two batches of animation, with accompanying programming variables, when you can make just one at top quality?. it’s about time and resource management.

medieval sources show hip carry being most popular by a large margin. spending extra time on something that is only rarely seen is a waste of time, from a qa standpoint.

#64

Well, you seem to miss the point that quivers on the back are ALREADY implemented. So doing another version for the hip would be additional work and I would appreciate it. But there is no reason to skip quivers on the back after all IF you already have it (which is the case here)… :wink:

You could just bring some variety to the game. Maybe some archers wear them on the back, some on the hip. Or hunter on the back and soldiers on the hip. Or whatever.

It would be wasted time and assets to erase the quiver on the back from the game imo… :wink:

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#65

Actually if I remember video correctly it was said there that the quivers are not final yet.

#66

Sure, not final, but they are there. Optimization is something else than creating stuff from the scratch imo. :wink:

#67

Try fighting with a sword or maneuvering at speed whilst carrying a hip quiver … good luck!

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