And now for some Alchemy!

Gameplay
#20

Historically alchemy ( Spagyrics to be precise in reference on the game) was known by christian monks , mostly living in monasterys , where in parallel of the monastic life , they were taking care of the gardens , full of medical herbs and plants . They where skilled in this rude chemisrty art by preparing infusions , creams , essential oils , alcholic distilates with erbes and so on.
Alchemy ( as mentioned by some users ) was the " art " of change the state of metals , using also strange and esotreic methods to fabricate the fine gold. This was ,( and is ) a handed down knoledge , hidden by the most.
So it would be a good idea to change the Alchemy reference with Spagyrics. And it would be a very good idea to implement at least one , well done , monastery . ( ideal also for some secondary quests. )

Here an interesting link http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/medny/herbgdn1.asp .

#22

I’m looking forward to see what recipes are used and what the effects are. Maybe this post should be filed under a “food spoilage” thread, but there were certainly outbreaks of ergotism caused by a fungal rye pathogen which is the source of modern day LSD. This especially is documented in France, but I don’t know about the locality where this game is based. Nasty effects like vasoconstriction, gangrene, losing fingers toes and limbs, headeache, vomiting, diarrhea, hallucinations, and death. Some suggest these outbreaks are tied to accusations of witchcraft and werewolves. So, even if you are poor… think twice before eating that moldy bread.

But back on topic, like @Ambaryerno said, herbalism is different from alchemy, though they often get lumped together. I swear I had a book called “Herbal Alchemy” with all sorts of recipes which depend on the season the plants are harvested and the lunar cycle…

Herbalism would be good for dealing with poison (like food poisoning or ergotism, hence my rant about it), sickness, infection, or temporary relief from fatigue, but I don’t think it would do much for a severed limb in battle.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/1272611/black-knight-fight-o.gif

#23

I would like to remind you that not everything that had appeared in that century and is completely possible and realistic, means that it should be in the game.
I would not mind having some kind of explosive taking part in some quest… but making it and carrying it around all the time would (in my opinion) ruin the game. Instead of sword fighting you wloud just go throwing granades CoD style.
Also alchemy does need knowledge nad practise. So is it even possible for main character to learn alchemy that well in given time?

So I agree that alchemy should be reduced to potions and other stuff mentioned above.

1 Like
#24

I just checked for some folk recipes that might have been used an found this:

You dissolve lard and add marigold, coneflower, plantain and agrimony. You let the pot stand for a day and next day you dissolve the lard again and filter the plants out. The result is healing salve, which according to what I read is surprisingly effective.

#25

Everyone here focused on healing potions and salves. These medicines, as well as ‘‘medicines’’ were surely widely spread, so they should IMHO be reflected in the game. Effective or not.

What I find much more of an interest is the weapon of women. :wink: Poison will be the way to go for the stealthy characters and I think has much more potential than healing salves for the game.

#26

I completely agree that not everything that is possible should be in the game - this is a game not reality - but we are also early adopters who can brainstorm and maybe some of our crazy ideas will shape the game’s development. It is easy to come up with crazy ideas. Much harder to implement them!

As for explosives, I wouldn’t want to go around hucking medieval grenades around. Among other reasons they might explode while you are carrying or crafting them (see this thread Early gunpowder weapons?). I don’t know how destructible they plan on making the environment, but I wouldn’t want a reputation as “the guy who blew up the only grocery store in town because he clicked the wrong mouse button.” On the other hand, it would be really cool if the townspeople got together to rebuild whatever happens to get destroyed.

In the video update where they show the real-world location of one of the castles and the real-world dungeons, at first it looks small, but then there is a small hole which leads to another tunnel which leads to another room, which goes on and on. I could easily see using explosives to open up “secret” passages. Or acids to eat away metal obstacles. These tools could be bought or crafted (= alchemy).

The speed at which most RPGs level up is very unrealistic. They say they are aiming at 30 hours of gameplay in Act I, but who knows how many days, weeks, months or years that will cover. In reality, it would take years to level any skill, be it swordsmanship, alchemy, stealth, whatever. The developers will find a balance between reality and video game, scripted story (with multiple options) and open world sandbox. I like that the game is headed in the direction of a focused landscape, and a focused story, but I also like open-world sandbox gameplay. If the game is as good as we hope it will be, it will be fun to replay with different character trajectories, possibly with alternate endings. But if the environment is as nice as it seems, we will be happy just to be in the world.

1 Like
#27

the woman you speak of is not a killer, only a smart resourceful survivor. so will she go around poisoning people? not necessarily. no time to anyway, since when will she have time to concoct poison when she’s a miller’s daugher trying to escape from a village massacre?

#28

Man, it was just called so and no village maidens used it. If anyone used it, the nobility.

#29

As millers daughter maybe she could have experience with common poisonous fungus. But in general I doubt common people were knowledgeable in poisons otherwise than if you eat that you’ll be sick.

#30

since you bring up claviceps and women, it was also used for controling bleeding during childbirth. a “fun” bit of trivia, which I doubt will end up in the game!

#32

Agreed. Alchemy and herbalism should be two separate skill sets… because they ARE two separate skill sets.

#33

Although, maybe it would be too impractical to divide the two, so they’ve been merged. These two terms are just too narrow to be covered with its own profession, provided the developers don’t want to have a ton of different skills as in WoW. I can easily live with it myself.

#34

i doubt you can actually become a full blown alchemist or herbalist and open shop. but you probably can develop those skills and use it personally or to make items to help other people or sell it to merchants

#35

From Kickstarter:

“Your abilities and stats grow depending on what you do… create potions and ointments through alchemy,… distill alcohol, and prepare food.”

Also from Kickstarter:

“Your character in Kingdom Come: Deliverance will have STATS (Strength, Speed, Agility, Vitality, and Speech), CONDITIONS (Stamina, Health, Hunger, and Sleep), SKILLS (Swordsmanship, Archery, Alchemy, and many others), and PERKS (special combat moves, crafting abilities, or varying advantages).”

Just a reminder that “Alchemy” is one of potentially “many other” skills. To be perfectly honest, while I find this incredibly interesting in real life, I rarely focus upon this trait in video games. Hopefully they come up with a twist that makes it compelling and not just a gather and grind quest.

I also agree that (at least in the 15th century) knowledge of elemental chemistry was probably different from knowledge of plants which was different from knowledge about animals. But I suspect that many of the people who knew about chemistry (alchemy) probably also knew a thing or two about chemically interesting herbs. And herbal distillates can be much more potent than just eating raw or cooked plants.

As for the forum, it is up to the community to keep alchemy and herbalism (wortcraft) as the same thread or split them like I tried to do with an early thread combining Oculus Rift and streaming/twitch/youtube - one thread for the combination of VR and streaming video, a separate thread for VR-specific discussion.

#37

I know double posting back to back is a forum taboo… but one more thought.

It would be cool if potions and salves/ointments could mean the difference between life and death. That would give me motivation to go out and learn what to do, rather than just gathering every herb and mushroom I find and have it clutter my inventory!

#39

Are you seriously comparing a contemporary university graduate in chemistry to a medieval alchemyst? I thought that alchemy is the successor of philosophy and the predecessor of all natural sciences. The fact that most of alchemysts might had ignored herbalism as witchcraft (something I really don’t know, it is just a speculation) doesn’t mean, that they weren’t the closest to scientist as possible.

I have read your post a few times, but how confused I feel. I am not sure if I understand half of it. Could you point out the part where you have a valid point, that contributes to the discussion please? It should also have something to do with my post, which stated, that these two could have been merged just for gameplay reasons.

#40

Also, harvesting everything would not be the option, since food and resources will go bad after some time (stated in one of the videoblogs I guess). Oh my god, I love this game already.

#42

Yeah, but they have actually stated it in the videos, so it should be true I suppose

#43

yes. in a perfect, realistic game, things you harvest will spoil and the location you harvest them from will regrow. over time…

#45

yes, heat breaks down some bio-active chemicals, but distillation can also concentrate them, i.e. essential oils. That is why many RPGs with alchemy/herbalism traits have mortar and pestel, crucible, retort, alembic, and other distillation and concentration apparatus

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