Homosexuality In The Game/Time Period

So… a sexual orientation that has been with us since we were flinging poo at each other during political discourse is abnormal?

Perhaps we should go accost some dolphins or bonobos next and explain to them that they’re abnormal?

Anyone remember Dragon Age III’s gay, bisexual, lesbian and heterosexual romance options? Please no!

I would direct you to the developers previous comments.

So the only thing we are allowed to say is where we think homosexual men in this time period met up?

In the hay barn, skinny dipping in the river/lake… who knows. I suspect it was not very common for men to be open about it for fear of persecution. Unless there are actual facts and accounts it is all just speculation and I can’t understand why this thread is so long.

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I think in the end the question is, whether to include or exclude homosexual relationship options or not. But to those who argue that there was a homosexual relationship option in the medieval era, i agree with kiwi :), in that case id like to have a relationship with a goat as it was as “common” as homosexuality. (filmreferences: The Black Death) (catherine the great died in the 18th century during sexual intercourse with a horse - rumors tell)

Don’t oversexualize the game please! I don’t mind having prostitutes or a small relationship story in the game, and maybe some references to other sexual preferences but i dont want the main character to be a sexual predator like geralt of rivia or a bisexual dragonage/masseffect character.

Those references could be chatter in the streets, a man burning at the stake, a wench being persecuted for having sex with a goat ( she must be a witch ).
I can even imagine that if you follow the chitchat you can walk in on a couple with other sexual preferences and you have the option to tell on them/ exploit them/ exploit them and then tell on them/ let em go/ (but please no option to join them/ this is not a sexsim) / aso.

Edit: Don’t quote me on that [ I don’t mind having prostitutes ] out of context xD.
Edit 2: Don’t even think about quoting me on that [id like to have a relationship with a goat] out of context :frowning:.
Omg my potential career as a politician is in the gutter now.

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LOL. Finally someone with a good sense of humor.

Of course homosexuality has been around for ages and I have nothing against it, some of my best friends are gay. But really do we need it in the game? Homosexuality has been “officially” condemned by the church so we would not witness it openly.

Of course homosexuality has always been strong inside the church and behind closed doors, but so was child molesting. Not that I would put being gay and abuseing childs at the same level there are differences but that are things that have happened often and especially in monastaries… I think we just don´t need it IN THE GAME. I think it will hardly provide something for the story. But if the developers chose to implement it, I would not have anything against it, it presented in the right context (the homosexuality not the child abuse). But homosexuality for the sake of it: I say “no”.

The setting of the game just makes it unlikely to be encountered, but one never knows.

Don’t want it. Don’t need it.

I don’t even want heterosexual sex or nudity in games, let alone homosexual stuff.

Sexual matters in RPGs are about as interesting to me as wanting to see taking a dump implemented.

I agree it’s not a “need” for the game. I think this game will be great without homosexuality or child molestation (and like you stated they’re not at all related) however, and please don’t take this the wrong way people, I think they’d both be interesting to see in the game. I’m not talking about full perv on visuals, but you see a child who’s uncomfortable around a certain priest or a nobleman who always keeps a boy or girl close by and you hear rumors or overhear them talking (not necessarily explicit) this elicits an emotional response from the audience and it might effect the players choice in how to interact with that character. I think both of those things are good to have in the game even though it will be good without it I think it adds more to the game with it.

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However pissed off I get reading comments such as that, and however I itch to attempt to educate, I won’t. In regard to the OP, let’s just ascertain that it’s not any foundation in real history that will determine if homosexuality is somehow going to play a minor part in the game, it’s if Warhorse believes many players will be interested in that theme, and how many that are expected to, like dear Dekssan over there, will feel offended by it. Note though, that when Bethesda’s Skyrim introduced gay marriage it was thought to become a huge controversy. It didn’t.

As I stated before, arguments back and forth on the relevance or historically accuracy of homosexual themes in the game is vastly overshadowed by how people regard the issue in real life. No matter how valid homosexuality is historically, Dekssan will perceive any gayness in this game as an expression of gay propaganda or an LGBT conspiracy, because that’s how he or she approaches the subject in real life (do correct me if I’m totally in the wrong here; it’s an assumption, I know)

Oh and for those that claim to have nothing against gay people, but don’t want to see it, don’t want to encounter it in any part of their life in any way, not in a game either; let me tell you: if I’m gay and you require me to keep quiet about it, stove a central part of my life away from view so not to offend you, keep any hints of my preference away from games and media, that you have nothing against homosexual people is not the message you’re sending and quite frankly, I don’t believe you one bit; I think you do have a problem with homosexuality, at least that’s the message you convey.

On topic now, pardon me: Personally, I applaud the subject and like to hear more real facts about how LGBT worked in medieval times. I don’t now a lot about it myself, but I bet it’s way more complex and diverse than “burn the fuckers for sodomy” :wink:History tends to surprise when you really dig into it.

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It really does. On youtube there’s a series about medieval life. By Terry Jones https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYLXlbE6Ly4&list=TLYKJEToCAL29Nj8P9tb4H8Aeni5TCCc3H

I listened to the series while gaming in the foreground. While I don’t completely believe everything he teaches as fact (it’s dangerous to completely accept truth which one does not discover themselves) he does provide a lot of insight into medieval life which is very believable and contradictory to what many people believe.

Acctually it’s quite accurate Terry Jones studied history (as well as English) at Oxford, plus if you have read any history books yourself will find that is where he’s getting his fact for the show from.

The Time travelers guide to Medieval England is a good one. Peter Ackroyed’s The history of England is also a interesting one even though it covers a greater passage of time and not just one speciffic period.

Also Terry Jones himself has written many books especially on Medieval history, which are quite enjoyable to read.

Try not to let his comedy background skew ones view on his historical accademics.

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I understand how realism has been hyped and emphasized in this game.

However, lets keep our modern day ‘realistic’ political and cultural problems in the modern day and stop projecting them into everything around us, including our video games. Regardless of how this is or is not to be handled, I see next to zero point in adding it as any type of a workable or game play feature into the game given its focus and stated mission goal. The only reason to do such would be to pacify a sub-sect of customers who like to drag the things that are important to them in their real daily lives ‘today’ into their virtual escapes.

In the middle ages people were much more worried about where their next meal was coming, if they would be attacked by the neighbors down the way, bandits on the road, taxes from the lord, and if they could put new clothing on their back rather then discussing heated sexual issues in public. If a peasant, or in many cases a burgess or a noble dared even mention the subject (And in 99.99% of cases they would not) they likely would have invited ridicule, investigation, and possible persecution upon themselves, their friends, and their families.

If you want medieval realism this issue is in the closet buried deeper than the answer to who swiped a single spoon of butter from the larder last evening, and how to magically free the king in a day. As such it should be non-existent or muttered exactly one (1) time in three (3) Acts of game play.

If the modders want to add to it, let them have at it, more power to them. (I would probably download it) One of the reason I support modding of games to a great degree. It lets people express what is important to themselves, in their entertainment without burdening the rest of us with it. However, the developers have much more important things to work on than deciding if they want or do not want to make a contemporary political statement within their game.

You may actually be very surprised. I recommend the terry Jones video series about medieval life https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg3YDN5gTX0&list=TLKA8H56iScUPuMdqqH6BW7yXP4jpdaq-V

From a prospective of scholarly advancement and having a degree in history I’m going to pretend you don’t think that’s great cannon for the times. Instead much more entertainment with a lot of generalities greatly embellished for the sake of the audience he’s producing it for.

You have the name Rush Limbaugh in one of your posts. I’m finding it difficult to take the topic seriously when I see that. I understand this topic may be important even central to you. I encourage you modding it into the finished game at your own discretion. There are much bigger fish for the developers to fry however.

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How does rush Limbaugh decrease the seriousness of the topic. I may be gay, but it doesn’t mean that’s the only aspect about me. He said something on his show which I happen to disagree with and that related to the topic being discussed. That the name of someone makes you take something as not serious without reading what it’s about is pretty closed minded, don’t you think?

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In an attempt to bring this topic back to it’s original focus, I think that living as a gay man, or whatever you would be, would have been different depending on you class and level of education.

Let’s take this game’s protagonist Henry, for example ( before I get yelled at, I DON’T KNOW IF HE’S GAY OR PARTICULARLY CARE, just roll with me for a sec.)

We’ve already heard him be submissive to his master, as any common man of his era would have been, so he might be of the mindset that he doesn’t need to learn about such things, he only needs to avenge his family and serve his rightful master well. But we have no clue of his education or social/political awareness. (At least I don’t.)

Therefore, does he know enough about the topic of homosexuality to be unbiased (probably not)?

But take his master, or the clergy man seen in the banquet hall. These two men are most likely educated and at least familiar with the topic of homosexuality (especially the clergy man). This must mean that they are able to form their own opinions about gay love and whether it should be tolerated, personally or socially.

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What this game really needs is a proper orgy - done by a band of intensely depraved monks, whose zoophilia is the least of their problems. (“Brother Hieronymus, is that you - in the middle - again?”)

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I don’t think orgies actually existed in Europe during the middle ages. That was more of a Greek/Roman thing.

I have seen, handled and read legit letters from a priest in a smaller town in northern Germany from the 15th century that tell a tale of half the town gathering at the church to celebrate in a very frivolous way, including both sexual and eating nature, unworthy of any man or woman of god.

It was quite amusing, you could -feel- how estranged and appalled the priest felt. :smile:
Sounded like the townsfolk had a really good time.