Not a fan of the combat

You know, you’re stance in this discussion is currently a very weak one.

Your entire argument seems to be "How do we know KC:D combat is realistic, if its only based off these manuscripts we have [that are most likely what was commonly used], and not actually going back in time to see what people did?"
You keep on saying, essentially “what about other things that were never recorded?” Its kind of like arguing that we don’t know for sure that sunlight comes from the sun because it might come from something else. You see why we keep going in circles :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Yeah, its very likely that not everyone knew all the details, but, as i said before (and this goes to you too, @HolyDeath ), the concepts are simple, and can be quickly taught. This would encourage their spread to everyone - like a trickle-down effect - from the masters, down to the nobles, to company leaders (or their equivalent), to the common mercenary.

To close off this portion, you must remember that this game is trying to be historically accurate. Unfortunately, as with most everything related to history, it won’t be 100% accurate. We have what we know of the time period, and are working off that. The whole “philosophical” side of the argument is more-or-less irrelevant. We simply don’t know exactly how people fought, but we have an educated guess, and that’s enough for the game.

@Warrior_Rose
From what i’ve heard, the locking system is only temporary as they try to get the combat mechanics ironed out - i do think a “sticky aim” would be appropriate, if only to prevent drag slashing like in Chivalry… shudder… However, I must disagree with your opinion that M&B style blocking would be nice - with four directions, its already complicated enough, add in two more at diagonal angles… thats a recipe for panic blocking. I also feel like it would make the combat too difficult. Although i suppose they could implement it through a difficulty setting, similar to M&B… But the devs have enough on their plate as it is.

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That he’s severely oversimplifying how a spear was actually used.

While these are demonstrated with staff, the techniques in this video would have been utilized by most all polearms (staff, spear, polehammer, halberd, bill, etc.), except perhaps the pike (too long), and would also apply to half-sword.

Well hes not talking about the advanced spear techniques. He’s just talking about the very very basics.

Interesting. But would these be used by a novice foot solider? Or a experienced veteran.

I don’t think anyone’s debating that the spear is not a complex art, but who would you bet on in a fight. A novice swordsman, or a novice spear man?

From my experience, if both the swordsman and spearman have only rudimentary — at best — training, neither has a real advantage. Yes, “anyone” can poke someone with a sharp object, but in all honesty, “anyone” can swing a 2-3lb piece of metal at someone in a threatening manner.

Now, while the spear DOES have a reach advantage, a novice fighter isn’t going to know how to use that advantage. Managing distance is something that comes with a GREAT deal of practice and experience, and a novice fighter is prone to either standing too close or too far away.

Furthermore, it’s actually a lot harder to be accurate with a spear-thrust than that video was making it out because of the length of the weapon and the body mechanics involved. I’ve only done a little bit of staff-work myself, and when I thrust I end up doing a LOT of missing. It’s VERY easy for the attack to go wide of, above, or below the target area if you don’t know how to keep your point on line So while using a sword has complications such as edge alignment, I find it much easier to be accurate with a cut from a sword than the thrust from a spear.

Well, I always had opposite problem: Doing nice clean cut took atleast hour of training (and a lot more to do it consistently, not to mention under pressure), thrusting that spear in human sized target worked every time :smiley:
Also thrust damage is quite more reliable imo, as slash or cut can sometimes result in flesh wound only.

Also - as you said, managing distance comes with a great deal of practice and experience - and that is true ESPECIALLY for swordsman, not for somebody with spear. I can thrust 3 meters away within one step with spear, enough to keep anyone at bay if he is not skilled enough, while novice swordsman must really try and overcome his sense of self preservation to get to range for longsword (not to mention shorter swords).

I think its like 70-30 for spear user to win this one imo…

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You cannot be serious.

Take two children, give one a ruler and the second one a broom.
Who do you think will win?

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Why you mention my name? I never objected that the basic concepts are simple or that they can be quickly taught. Perhaps because I said that melee combat required a lot of physical training? Well, it did. It’s not “hard” to teach, but it does take time to condition yourself properly.

Dead serious. I’m not talking out my ass, here, I’m talking from experience.

Mom when she comes in to paddle their asses.

Let’s agree on the fact that I don’t agree with you.

It’s not the amount of people I was actually referring to, it’s the amount of combined strength and skills. But sure, I’m very interested to see this.

@mackwab

It is so hard to say, because I really like the game, and I really like the whole idea and the developer team. And every time someone criticise something, he gets flamed all the way. But to be honest I dont like combat either. It look great, but it seem to me like a timing minigame with beautiful animations.

When the team announced what the idea of combat is, I was thrilled! They said it will be working with a physics a lot. I imagine something as good and funny like hitting people with some garbage using a gravity gun in Half Life 2. That really is physics-based fighting, that is never scripted and every fight is different because of that. I have a post about blocking and it is related to this post, so check it out if you want:

I guess I would prefer little bit glitchy but really physics driven ragdoll fighting over this.

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complain about it not being fun or to hard or a minigame is fine…

Complain that it is not historical and you turn it into a debate about historical fighting… and then you need to back op you opinions. And when you write something that is simply not correct, then you get flamed.

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Yesss… Flamed… :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

But honestly. With the combat trying to be realistic, it is as close to real historical sword-fighting as they can make it. To some, it might come as a disappointment to learn that sword-fighting in real life is not as swing-y or hack-y as it is portrayed in most movies and video games. It’s inevitable that people will find it either too hard, or too simple for their tastes, and not enjoy it, but that’s not what is so great about the combat. I enjoy it because it isn’t over the top or exaggerated. Hopefully the devs can find a way to make more people enjoy, but as for me, I’m happy with the money I’ve spent.

Also, seriously, don’t say it isn’t historical. We’ll hunt you down :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:.

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I miss dirty tricks and the feeling of haveing the control about how my character is fighting. Things like hitting with the pommel or grabbing the blade to make a thrust much more mortal/ accurate while facing a tincan. I hope they planned to implement such things. Else it is too boring for me because of the lack of variation what you can do in a fight. Also directional blocking is a must-have imo. Without that it was just so damn easy to win against the best fighter in that small arena. I didn’t even use the combos because there was a translation (string) error for that hint-window so it didn’t show me anything but and error code.

For example the polearms…

Don’t you expect polearms in a medieval rpg game?

Cause if you don’t, me and many others do.

Things like pommel smashes and kicks can be done when in a bind. They say they’re planning on implementing half-swording techniques into combat, so that should happen, along with other things. I think everyone needs to remember that this is still the first stable combat build they’ve done with this system, and its pretty dang good so far. Changes can and will happen.

@HolyDeath
I @'d you because you said this

And I just wanted to let you know that I was referring mainly to concepts, not mastery - I didn’t mean it to be anything other than clarification :smile:

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I agree with that, I believe it is really very realistic. I am just sad about the possibility that I will avoid combat in the game, because It doesnt please me at all (in terms of fun). The game is revolutionary and great and extremely beautiful, but so far combat is spoiling the rest for me.

Iam also not that entertained by it.
But that might be because of my rather old PC… so got a low fps even on lower settings.

Pole arms have not been “cut”, they are having difficulty implementing it into the system.

The long sword combat alone is 2000 animations its allot of work and they must also create all the algorithms to make it function properly according to the laws of physics.

As far as I am aware (unless someone has heard different) they have not abandoned them.

Also the struggles of imple,ented the as been made known since the Kickstarter campaign.

So pole arms is one feature and I touched base on that what other features have been cut?

Did you watch new video?


There you can learn why is blocking made in a way it is made.

If you are talking about blocking, then yes. But otherwise combat system is all about right timing. And that is again said in the new video.

Having realistic combat system is nearly impossible. But clearly some aspects of KCD combat system are more realistic than M&B or Chivarly. I would even say that everything except blocking and parying is more realistic. And even that might not be true, because once again in the video Viktor says that in real fight blocking/parying is more matter of reflexes than conscious action. So in that kind of sense this system is more realistic, but that’s jsut my opinion.
But another thing is historical accuracy and that is in what KCD exceeds any other game.

I also have my doubts about summer 2016, but you should know that Warhorse has many things done and what you can play in Technical alpha is just a fraction of what is already completed.
So have faith.

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