Poll: What should be our next stretch goal? What about 3rd person camera?

Pledge/Kickstarter
#370

And like they said themselves;“it would be a shame if that expertise does not get to shine in the game…”
Maybe there is yet another solution,more or less like in my all-time-favorite game
Quest for Glory V

A “3rd person observe mode”
when the eye of observe mode is open,that can lead you to secret content sometimes and focuses more on interaction with objects and environment…Sometimes this observe mode can also hint to solutions of puzzles and stuff…
Also the tactical large-scale battles would be in 3rd person camera perspective

then when you switch the observing eye off ,you’d go “1st person handling/combat mode”
Like when you experience crafting,and this so-called in-depth medieval martial arts they have mentioned in a stretch goal

excellent point with the layers of clothing ,Buliwvy…It would be a shame if they went through all this effort
for it not to be displayed…I think they might have thought that as well… all this effort they put in detail goes to waste,if not appreciated…

#372

Well, as this game is being designed to be 1st person primarily and all the ruckus about 3rdP is essentially about how 3rdP could/would drive people away from this way of gameplay, it should be quite the other way around. Not giving the 3rdP too much advantage.

Most in-depth gameplay mechanics, like some more advanced observation/inspection/deduction, should be actually bound with the primary 1stP view - in the first person you are effectively viewing everything much closer, in more detail. That is the actual point where you can spot additional details/hints/whatever that are not visible without closer inspection or from a distance.
3drP is generally good for sightseeing and more general observation of the surrounding area. Its wider perspective is quite enough an advantage on its own…

#373

I really dont think that 3rd person view restrict your precision in melee (and archery would be still in 1st person). Unless, of course, it would be 3rd person view like World of Warcraft but I wouldnt count on it.

#374

Lets hope its not like world of warcraft ;D
Indeed archery is an excellent example,Wenceslaus
the aim required begs for first person almost
The other question is:How precise will the in-depth medieval martial arts combat be ,that they have promised…
If that is also heavily based on aim ,like archery is,in 3rd person it will get pretty hardcore,if not impossible.But I have no clue about the combat its just something I was wondering about

And PhanTom_CZ,that makes sense
1stP would perhaps be better suited for observation/inspection mode too
3rdP would be best for large-scale tactical battles(yet we don’t know the finer details about that)

#375

Dan already wrote that archery wont be in 3rd person view

Melee is pretty different by nature. In War of Roses, if the enemy put up his visor, I aim my thrust to his face - and thats pretty small moving target. So I have absolutly no fear that 3rd person view could restric precision in melee. And for example judging distance is more precise in 3rd preson view in my case.

Anyway, in my opinion, medieval combat is a bit more about techniques and counter techniques than about hitting the oponents eye.

#376

Interesting,I never played War of Roses though…
I just fear that the 1stP combat would have to sacrifice some of its depth to make room for 3rdP.

There should be more to each mode I think
Like in interiors you’d be able to discover things in observe/inspection mode
you won’t be able to dicover in 3rdP

Perhaps 1st person forcing for -shooting,interiors,crafting,minigames
"interaction" mode might be more suited
And the game would provide you hints when you inpect things up close in first person

3rd person would be a different mode “tactic mode”?
If you need to sneak past a few patrols or drug their beer or something ,…this might be of use to bypass the guards
Or other events that require situational awareness…
Perhaps in 3rdP the results of your action might bear slight more effect…you could see NPCs slip away when
you have a notorious reputation for example…just some thoughts…
Well to admire all the layers of clothes on your character,that might be a reason to go 3rdP
Or to admire Henry naked,since he’s such a hunk…I bet thats why those in favor of 3rdP are so many xD

You’d be encouraged to switch modes because each mode opens doors for new discoveries and experiences ingame…thats the idea more or less at least…I’ll think about it some more perhaps

#377

which is why 1st person perspective isn’t going anywhere.

in arma, when people have trouble being precise, they go into ironsight, which is a 1st person view. if they shoot from 3rd person, they will miss.

in this game, probably same thing will happen.

another worry debunked.

#378

I am OK with 3rd person for people who want it, but I don’t intend to use it (immersion, harder to control in combat). My worry is that adding a major new stretch goal like this will delay the game release, and add more requirements on the hardware and possibly create code glitches. If you do this ambitious goal you will probably need more people writing code, who are the most expensive employees at Warhorse (they make more than graphics, artist and most game design people). So if you get 50% net from the pledges, how many man-year will 250k buy you?

I have an alternative stretch goal proposal: for extra 500k, you will buy whole bunch of graphic cards and hire people to do such a thorough pre-release hardware testing on all available platforms, including some plausible out-of-date setups that you will be able to guarantee no major glitches at the release date with the recommended hardware, and you provide a thorough hardware and OS specifications needed to run Deliverance: KC at decent frame rate and resolution.
Most games get patched into playable enjoyable form long after the official release. Your game is more ambitious than the rest, and I worry it will be also more glitchy.

#379

ummm, they’re already doing that with the alpha test.

#380

Yea so if close combat requires you to hold a sword in a certain way to defend yourself,
or when you need to hit very specific points of the body in combat
The forced 1stP will also be needed for close combat
In 3rd person you’d be hacked to pieces then,as you’d be unable to defend yourself accurately.
To make combat work in 3rdP they’d have to dumb it down with auto targeting head/romp/legs,…
As would the enemy easily bypass your defence stances if you can’t perform them accurately

I think 3rdP might have its uses:for example to make clear an enemy beheads you
It would be a shame if players cannot witness the layered clothing system too
But I think the best purpose for a 3rdP mode would be tactics in large scale battle
These battles might be epic if you can experience them more like a movie.
In 3rdP you might notice things in the environment you wouldn’t notice in 1stp
These large scale battles especially could take advantage of such environmental awareness.
Perhaps it would even be key if you need to make strategical decisions

But if close combat is so detailed,how will you handle enemies that attack from everywhere ,like in these large scale combats?
Perhaps battles against many ,tactical mode,should have another combat system.
And how well you fight against many would be decided by how well you master the medieval martial arts

#381

Why? You dont have autotarget to do it… at least not with keyboard and mouse. Although I dont know how that work on gamepad.

#382

if close combat requires the accurate execution of moves,techniques,…
The opponent would be able to hit you in many more ways ,compared to a simple combat system you’d see in other 3rdP games.
with their stretch goal of accurate medieval martial art combat,positioning will be important too perhaps ,knowing when to close in on the enemy or take a step back in a fight

3rdP would handicap you(coordination/position opposed to the enemy )if the combat is so detailed and this would put you at a disadvantage in combat in 3rdP
Although,I don’t know how in depth combat will be.
but if its in-depth combat as I’d imagine you’d probably end up this way if you go about it in 3rdP

#383

I personally fear that combat will be much more like TES/Skyrim than I hoped. With such a combat system it’s of cause more or less indifferent whether you use first or third person camera…

But you know, hope dies last. :stuck_out_tongue:

1 Like
#384

Hehe,well they hired medieval martial art experts ;it would be a shame if combat turns out to be more like TES.
But it looks promising after seeing this combat gameplay
Chosen approach, attacking from left or right will be important and enemies can fool you by acting like they are going to attack one way but attack from the other side…
And if enemies are able to deceive you with direction I don’t know if this will play out well in a 3rdP

The combat looks so exciting they should perhaps consider adding a replay option after combat
So you can learn from mistakes.

And even if close combat would require forced 1stP
Maybe they should grant players the ability to switch 1stP-3rdP out of combat?the replay of a battle could be seen in 3rdP perhaps?People that play with multiple monitors would have it easy ofcourse …

well in the link here its 3rdP but I wonder if that is replay or gamplay…

#385

i don’t see the problem with 3rdp evean if it is lesaccurate that wold be the choice of the player im for input of 3rd person and let peppol play day way day whant if some one will be so hard to kill day can swich back to first person

#386

Another thing I wonder is whether VR and the Oculus Rift is still a topic for @warhorse. We haven’t heard anything substantial about that since the kickstarter campaign. I would rather have additional money invested in a proper VR solution than in 3rd person which only drives away from VR and the first person experience…

Star Citizen went this way with CryEngine. Proper (and early) VR support and full concentration on the first person experience with no possibility to play the final game in 3rd person.

For KCD 3rd person could still be possible with modding since it’s a single player only game though, so the argument “you want to take something away from people” isn’t really strong…

4 Likes
#387

If you constantly have to switch to 1stP because opponents are too hard/complex there is little point to 3rdP.
and I’ve been thinking about OCulus Rift support too,Lordcrash…Infact I believe supporting that would do the money invested in medieval martial arts experts more justice…

I could see how 3rd could do the gorgeous details of the game justice in certain situations too.
(probably nowhere near as cool as Oculus Rift support though)
But 3rdP as a stretch goal on its own makes for an underwhelming stretch goal that won’t do the game much good.(Don’t get me wrong,i have nothing against 3rdP,it just needs to be supported by something greater and more impressivel)
…I’ve been thinking about the modes too
where you can switch back and forth between:

Interaction mode-which will be 'real 1stP’
This mode is also inspection/observe mode
So you’ll be able to discover evidence,pieces of a puzzle,and this could even lead you
to secret game content on some occasions(the combat happens in this mode too ofcourse)

Character mode (out of combat) -which will be a camera you can move freely around your character in a certain radius.
You can take screenshots of your character…admire all the details of the layered clothes,…
Perhaps its also suited to make minor changes to the hair/shave beard/stop the bleeding of wounds after combat,…
In this mode you can also put your martial arts to the test,with target practicing
So you’d be able to determine how you’d fair in larger battles
Also horse mounting or when you climb a carriage ,getting beheaded,… will be in character mode

Tactical mode - 3rdP suited for large scale battles where its all about strategy,
to sneak past an amount of patrolling NPC’s unnoticed
Also a bard could use this mode to cause a distraction in a village or situation,…

Replay mode
watch the battles you got defeated in again in either 3rdP or 1stP to learn from mistakes

1 Like
#388

In my experience it is quite the opposite. In 1stP I often fail to reach my opponent with my weapon, unlike in 3rdP becouse 1stP limit your senses and it is not really good for realistic melee combat IHMO.

But I dont want to say someone cant be better in 1stP, sure. Just disagreee that 3rdP is a disadvantage that would simplified the combat.

#389

Personally I enjoy games like Gothic (3rd person), so I wholeheartedly support this stretch goal. Please implement the optional 3rd person camera.

However, my suggestion is: please maintain the main focus on the 1st person view for this game. Let the 3rd person be simply an alternative. Please do not alter mechanics just because of the 3rd person view stretch goal.

1 Like
#390

That’s only true for pre-VR first person games. :wink:

2 Likes
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