Realism, How far should it be taken

Story & Setting
#288

The answer “because you can” still stands. Sigismund’s soldiers were known to be bringing havoc notwithstanding the allegiance of the poor folk or prospects of any booty. They were doing it simply because Sigismund let them to.

The folk doing that are a bit different from your average Samopše villager in the same way the hardcore Neonazis differ from the average WH team mates. They are primarily driven by their bloodlust and secondary reasons like allegiance/race are used mostly because they are more acceptable to society.

It is the same with criminals on the streets. You have opportunists who want to get something from you, and might hurt you in the process, and then you have psychopaths who want to hurt you, and might get something in the process. Put those people on the background of civil war with their leadership not giving a single s**t and you get groups of psychopaths terrorizing people just for the fun of it (while taking their possessions in the process too).

If the aim of the game is realism and you truly believe that

then you are about to fail greatly on realism.

#289

Okay, so true to the intended topic of the thread, I think I may have my thoughts on the matter finally settled.

There are strange differences between real life and “realistic” video games, that actually obstruct the goal of “realism” rather than add to it. We’ve discussed several points, one of the latest being village pillaging, and here’s how I think of it.

Q: Did it happen in real life? A: Yes
Q: Do I want to see it in real life? A: No!
Q: Do I want to see it in a “realistic” game? A: Yes!

And here’s why. In real life, if I saw that (KC: D), or someone being raped (Custer’s Revenge), or had to murder my way out of a prison to survive (Manhunt), or a myriad other things that video games have let us experience over the years, I’d probably cry or pee myself or pass out or all three. Because I’m not trained to deal with those situations, I’m not a honed fighter. I play games… I don’t perfect my swordplay. I don’t hone my muscles until they’re capable of hurling an attacker from his victim.

But in games, I do have that. In KC: D, if I come upon a village being pillaged, will I run? Or pee? Or fall helplessly to the ground? Hell no! I’m going to draw my sword, or bow, or ax, or halberd… I’m going to mount my horse, and I’m going to get medieval on those sumbitches. I’m gonna save me some common folk, get some free ale and some coin, and get to chat up the mayor’s daughter.

So to say, “I want pillage scenes because it’s realistic”, is all good, but you obviously don’t want to react realistically to it. You want to play the hero. Or you want to sit idly and watch. Or you want to join in and share some spoils. Whatever you want, I can bet that it’s not what the real you would do if you drove into a small town and it was being attacked by militia (broad example, feel free to modify to suit your demographic).

So how far should realism be taken? I guess that depends on what real-life situations we would like to be able unrealistically participate in. :wink:

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#290

Will we be able to burn buildings in a village down by throwing a torch on them?

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#291

That is what concealed carry is for, son.

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#292

very good points @Night1505 however I might add in a realistic game I don’t want to be godlike or a superhero. I’ve actually been in combat situations and know what it’s like to be surrounded by guys with knives and only having a mop nearby as a weapon. (Yes it’s the god’s honest truth I did take out 3 guys with knives using only a mop). It doesn’t matter if you’re physically weak or strong or have training or not. You have people who piss themselves and people who don’t when they’re outmatched. Sometimes you come out on top sometimes you don’t. Some fights you win by saying the right words and looking as fearless as you can. These are aspects I want to see in a realistic game. Now I know they aren’t going to be outright easy to implement though with VR on the horizon perhaps it’s time for video game developers to begin thinking along those lines. In civilian life you don’t get an opportunity to get into fights without repercussions very often. I would love to recreate that event where I was outmatched and had to use what was available to survive. Of course such an event would only be possible in VR.

#293

we already lobbied for that in this thread. But I vagly remember a developer saying somthing that made me loose hope that it will be implemented.

#294

Claims to have taken out 3 wielding guys with a mop and becomes combat expert… Why would you want to recreate a time in your life when you were close to being murdered and had to fight for your life. It couldn’t have been a very pleasant experience.

#295

Same here. Which is one reason this game appealed so much to me. To be perfectly specific, the things that made me put my money down on this game were all in the KS video:

  1. The player being a cutpurse by literally cutting a purse from an NPC
  2. The 1st person sword fighting where you can’t see your hands (looking at you Skyrim)
  3. The never-before-seen (by me) melee combat that looks like a fencing simulator (think the scene where the player is taking on two guys on a large field). Particularly the little move he does where he taps the tip of the enemy’s sword aside before slashing.
  4. The sword sharpening scene at the grinding wheel.
  5. The fist fighting where you could actually punch and kick the opponent.
  6. Seeing the player stabbed and actually feeling some weight behind the graphics.
  7. Dungeons & No Dragons :wink:

So the fact that I’m not all powerful is a plus rather than a minus. However, Henry is still going to act very differently from how I would, simply because he is a fictional character with zero consequences or fear.

But, I’m certainly not saying that we should concede realism simply because our digital characters won’t really be acting truly real. But the realism should add to the fun factor of the game, and not just because “that’s how it works in real life”.

A few people have mentioned DayZ as an example of realism going too far. Allowing players to take a poo. What happened? Players poo’d on other players (not super cool, but makes the immature me laugh still). Do people poo in real life? Yes. Do they go around pooing on whomever in public. Well, not generally, no. So while pooing is realism in the game, it wasn’t really adding to the fun of the game (you may find it fun to poo on others, but prolly don’t find it so fun to be poo’d on :slight_smile: ), since players can hardly be expected to use the feature realistically.

Should KC: D include “disturbing” (in quotes only due to the sliding scale of definition among diverse groups of people) material for the sake of historical accuracy? I say yes. I know what I’m buying. I know there will be blood, and nasty humans doing evil things, because I know that stuff did really happen. So, I’m prepared for it… even excited for it.

Should we have to make Henry stop and relieve himself every so often for the sake of realism? I say probably not. That wouldn’t be fun, I don’t think. Some might, but I don’t think they’re gonna throw a fit if it’s not included.

I guess what it comes down to, for me, is the difference between historical accuracy, and realism. Historical accuracy should be included for the sake of historical accuracy. Realism, however, should not be included simply for the sake of realism. Realism should be included for the sake of entertainment. I suppose that’s about as succinct.as I can put it. :wink: :slight_smile:

#296

thank god you’re not developing this game, we might see nothing but caricatures.

#297

That statement is Incorrect. I really have never understood the fear of a fight, perhaps it’s because I’ve been in fights since a very young age. Personally a welcome a good fight, knives make people more pathetic in my eyes, though the risk they pose adds to the fun. Most people who want to use a weapon to take you out are pathetic. Especially for a stupid reason like skin color. Second time in my life people tried to kill me based on my skin color. 1st time I was in the first grade and was a pacifist. Second time I’m ex-military who loves a fight. That second time I did a lot better.

#298

There is a way to add defecation in a moderately enjoyable way though I think it’s more important in sim games. You may not need to utilize the rest room very often though as time went on our dear blacksmith might need to find a latrine or bush to relieve himself or perhaps he may find himself in a message situation should a fight break out suddenly. This might stun the attackers as the back away from the sudden odor. I think the ability to defecate anywhere is a realistic ability simply not a realistic action. So specific points, like in sleeping dogs, where you can relieve yourself would be best.

#299

What do you mean? What is your argument?

#300

Sorry cant trust your ex military anyone can claim something over the internet.

May i ask what race you are ,Black ,White, Hispanic, Asian? If you love to go looking for fights then you are dangerous to society and should be locked up tight. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37XiSn81oFw
Good luck “fighting off knife attackers with a broom” unless your fucking Bruce lee.

2 Likes
#301

the whole point of a video game is to experience things you couldnt do in real life , like butchering an entire town men women and children then graciously ride into the sun set without a care in the world . If you try and add morals or rules to games i think you’re destroying the whole purpose of why people game .

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#302

wow dood. It’s funny how a guy can say one thing, and another can hear something completely different. You don’t need to be bruce lee to stand up to punks. You don’t need to be a martial arts expert to protect your friends. If you think that everyone who points a gun at you or holds a knife is dangerous then you’re completely ignorant of that part of humanity, and I’m happy for you that you pretty much live in a bubble away from conflict, except online. Never did I say I go looking for fights. However two things people have continuously tried to harm me for in my life. The first being my skin color. It’s white and of course my genitalia being male also upsets people these days. Then I’m gay, and you know what that upsets people to. Do I choose any of these three things? No. Did I ask to be attacked for any reason…no. However people are idiots. All throughout history and people will always choose things to be idiots about though they may change across time. We don’t live on an ideal planet. We aren’t the most ideal species, but we are what we are. We live with that and we find a way to survive. I survive because I learned to enjoy the fights thrust upon me. I joined the military because I couldn’t stand ass wholes killing innocent people who are just trying to survive. People who just want to live in peace, find love, and be with their families. So next time you want to badger someone online because they live a life different from yours. Don’t. Just try to learn. Realize that what you know is not everything and there is always a reason to learn.

#303

More people are murdered or mugged by “punks with knifes or guns” then trained people with knifes or guns. I wasn’t hardly badgering you but you looked at being attacked by people with knives as a pleasant and experience and then proceeded to say you love a good fight. You say people attack you because you’re gay? How would they know unless of course you were throwing it in their faces or screaming about it in public like a lot of gays do. If you are really being attacked this often then you might be the problem here. A person who would attack someone for as stupid a reason as there skin color would be a very dangerous person especially if they were armed. Read about or watch any knife attack and you will know how foolish and arrogant your attitude towards them sounds.

1 Like
#304

I would continue this back and forth with you, but it’s off topic. I will end with this though. Your arrogance offends decent people. You stand on a soap box with your chest puffed out claiming you’re smarter and a better person than those around you. Yet all you speak is ignorance to people with experience. You’re the guy who would piss your pants when being mugged then afterwards make a speech about how you deserved to be mugged because of white privilege or some other nonsense. I’m the guy who comes in to save your ass. You don’t need to be trained, I wasn’t for a long time, and what you call throwing my sexuality in peoples faces I call holding my boyfriends hand. Or kissing him. If you wish to continue to throw your ignorance at me save your self the embarrassment of doing it in public and just shoot me a PM. as I said this is off topic.

#305

Funny seeing how anyone who doesn’t agree with you is ignorant and inexperienced. You really think you’re something don’t you?

Cant say how i would react because ive never been mugged but i wouldn’t say i deserved to be mugged and i certainly wouldn’t spout off about white privilege.

So you go around at night fighting crime on the streets and save people in distress using nothing but a mop. I can sleep well at night knowing mop man is watching over me.

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#306

Dear Madaras,

it’s ok when you’re gay but why do you have to tell about that in this forum? It sounds like you wanted to tell people about a serious desease although it is just a simple and absolutely unimportant thing of your privacy. There is no reason to publish it and i think that no one really cares about it.
When it comes to the game I would like to have many opportunities without any moral assessment. When I am in the mood I would like for example to decide to report a gay person so he or she gets burned(or whatever) or I like to have the ability to say ok I won’t report this person because I don’t think that burning is appropriate.
I don’t like games where you have to be the “good” guy or the “bad” one. It should depend on your decisions and there should be many important ones of them so you have a big influence on the world, your reputation and your abilities.

2 Likes
#307

So you are saying that there are armed attackers who are actually not dangerous?

I would really like to know in what place on Earth a person faces constant attacks by agressors with knives and guns but the attackers are incompetent to the point that an average Joe with no special training can fend them off without being stabbed/shot in the process.

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