Stamina in the game

Combat system
#1

Continuing the discussion from Axes, Maces and Polearms:

Continuing the discussion from Combat System Update!:

I have read a lot about different aspects of game in Kingdom Come within the last days, from different fighting styles over weapon and armor choices to archery. All these things are connected by stamina, because in some way you will deplete it while fighting or moving around. We saw this in the video about combat, the other 1 hour gameplay video and we heard the devs talk about it, so we can take this as confirmed.

My crucial questions now are:

  1. How fast will stamina deplete?
  2. How fast will stamina recover?

In many other games where stamina is used to display the overall ability of a person to run, sprint, jump and fight without getting tired, it is used up pretty quickly. You almost everywhere sprint up to ~10 seconds, jump ten time or do a few “power attacks” with your weapon before your stamina reaches 0. Then it starts to recover fairly quickly (often only when you stand still or don’t take any actions mentioned above). Think of Gothic 3, Chivalry, and all the others games with stamina combat.
As I have experienced it, the player can be fully refreshed in just about a few seconds and fight again like he just started the battle. In my opinion this surely adds to the gameflow (and in multiplayerscenarios to balance) but takes away much athmosphere. Imagine taking part in a siege battle, running towards the walls, climbing up a ladders, fight your way through one or two opponents - both tough fights - then sprint to that archer over there to take him out before he can reload his crossbow… in full armor. You would be devastated by now. But then you take a moment to stand still, watch the battle aaaaaand you feel fresh and renewed like this morning after breakfast.

Long story short: I think there should be a stamina system that displays exhaustion over the duration of a battle/fight. Maybe the “stamina bar” could get shorter and shorter until you take a break (I am talking about a real break from combat where you sit down, take a drink - you get the idea…) and recover.

I think this solution would help the immersion into the game very much. What do you think? What are your ideas/thought concerning stamina in Kingdom Come?

1 Like
#2

I actually made a mod for Skyrim called “Skyrim Heart Rate”, that tried to do just that. The idea was to bring two new player variables to the game. “Heart Rate” and “Long Term Stamina”.

The player’s heart rate was affected by actions. This means that running sprinting and fighting raised your heart rate. Your heart rate didn’t rise instantly, it rised with a speed dependent on the action. Depending on what you were doing, the heart rate could rise to different levels. For example running may have made your heart rate rest at 140 BPM, and sprinting may have made it rest at 180 BPM. Of course you could also make it fall again, by taking a break, walk, or sit down for the biggest effect.

Then I introduced Long Term Stamina (I’ll call it LTS). LTS was dependent on heart rate, and only heart rate. This means, that when your heart rate was very high, LTS would drain quickly. LTS was a giant pool, so it would take you some time, to drain it all. If you wanted to recover it, you would have to take a break, to get your heart rate down, so your LTS would rise again. Then it would be a good idea to walk to your next location instead of running. That way you could still regenerate some LTS along the way.

Heart rate had a big impact on stamina regeneration, and a minor impact on total stamina. This is to simulate the concept of warming up. If you went into combat with a low heart rate, your in-game stamina would drain quickly, and take some time to regenerate. Of course you would get warmed up during the fight, and you would be at peak performance after a bit of activity. So a high heart rate would give you a bonus to total stamina and stamina regeneration.

LTS had a major impact on total stamina, and had some side-effects. Being at full LTS would give you a bonus to total stamina and a slight bonus to attack speed. As LTS falls, your total stamina would start to suffer, and at the lower levels, your vision would start to get blurry, your running speed would decrease, and your weapon speed as well. I was in the process of implementing dropping your weapon upon impact, falling in extreme sircumstances and other side effects, when I moved, and didn’t have a place for my gaming rig.

I plan to release a similar mod for KCD if the stamina model doesn’t suit me.

7 Likes
#3

I think this is exactly the part where a fact that it is a game in the first place should prevail over realism efforts. I’m really not interested in fights in which I’m not able to continue after three swings, and I’m definitely not interested in sitting on a bench for like half an hour to regain my stamina. It’s the same thing like i don’t want to play a game for years to learn my character how to fence…

And I’m also pretty sure your crucial questions about quickness of stamina recovery are precocious. This is matter of balance and the game is not in a phase of balancing combat right now (only one half-functional weapon in the game…) Also we are speaking about RPG, so it’s obvious it won’t be some general number, but individualy stats-dependant.

1 Like
#4

That sounds awesome! Did you ever release your mod? Is it available on the steam workshop or nexus?
I’d like to play this mod but I also think it should stay a mod, the reason being that the system is not transparent enough. It’s a mechanic that is not apparent to the player and would confuse him if he didn’t deliberately choose it to be in the game.

#5

Sure… Skyrim Heart Rate is on the nexus.
I feel absolutely horrible about it though. Since I haven’t been able to continue work on it, there are still some minor bugs. I’m going to implement Frostfall and RND integration as well.

#6

I’ll be sure to try it out when I feel like playing Skyrim the next time. :smile:

I do my share of scripting and coding at work but am always in awe about how people find the time and motivation to do something like that in their free time. Can you tell me what language or tech you used for your mod? It sounds like a script but how do you go about implementing it?

Oh sorry, I seem to be getting off-topic here. Maybe I should snoop around in the modding section a bit more.

#7

Well… I think the source code is included in the mod files. The scripting language is called Papyrus, and is fully documented on Creationkit.com. It also builds on the Skyrim Script Extender (SKSE).

You have to use the Creation Kit, to build your mod, though. You build the infrastructure in the Creation Kit, and then reference external scripts. So in particular I build this mod around a hidden quest, that starts once the game is loaded up. This quest has a script attached to it, that initiates the functions. From that I can add in-game effects to the player. I can add scripts with more advanced effects to these in-game effects.

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#8

AWESOM! I like this stamina system!!! It is very realistic, perfect for KCD!!

#9

Thanks for the answers/suggestions so far!
I am really interested what the majority of players out there think about stamina in Kingdom Come and I really hope the devs don’t make it to simple.

#10

I don’t qute sure, that using only heart rate is a best option.
How you use training skills, like acrobatic, weapon specialisations and other? For better reflection of reality it would be great to use specialisation in your rate calculations, better running skill gives you less consunption of stamina and less heart rate rise, because your character is a PRO and uses his body with better effectivity.
And there is anothier thing - repeated actions, like swinging sword. Legs wouldn’t be more tired than hands. How about two zones: pectoral girdle and pelvic_girdle with zones of affection. That will give charactrer chance to flee when he can’t swing weapon anymore.

#11

I’m really sorry, but our character is not a PRO, if this is a realistic game, our character should be a normal human, a person who can die in anywhere and for who knows what reasons

#12

My point in using some variables to store training skill. Even ordinary people, when for example, running day by day will have better results in running after the month of that activity.

#13

I was in the process of implementing a training/level system in the stamina model. I can’t exactly remember, but I think some of it is already in there.

I remember discussing training on the nexus, and of course it makes sense. There is the issue of balancing and keeping it fun, though. If a character’s condition is tied to how much they run every day, players will immediately train to their peak condition, and that will just end up as the new norm. The reason they are going to do that, is because they don’t really have to sacrifice anything for it.

It’s just another chore to maximize your characters capabilities. My plan is to tie it to the characters in-game stamina. Leveling up your stamina, will improve your condition, as it was intended in the original game. It would be nice, if you could tie it to a skill like in oblivion, but they got rid of that. I am also going to factor in the weight of your equipped armor. I’m just not sure how to keep the player from taking it all off, if they don’t use frostfall.

#14

You’re right, but stamina will limit amount of non-stop running (not walking) in time and overral physical activity by the day - human body can’t do hard work all day - character will be exhausted at the end. Yes, there is lots of work with balance.
If players will mindless train their characters, may be they will just fall down exhausted. For example.

#15

@Anzious you know what game is Tibia? it have a stamina system and a weight system (but no related). To training your skills you need to do a exactly things like:

To train your running strength when you need to overcome a set speed and a set time, it forces you to save all your backpack, just to train.
To train shooting bow, then shoot and depends on whether you hit an enemy or not, and where the success, increasing the ability, you can put a certain number of hit shots
To train … whatever you like

But the weight of the armor only affect the speed… (you can’t run with 30k in the body), but after 10 days with a lot of weight on, our character need to get used, really? A possibility is after 6 or 12 or 24 or … hours with this weight on, the character get used 1%, or similar, with a limit, like 15% of the weight ( the numbers can change it a lot)
Is a good idea?

And we can put a reverse system, no? if you no training in a lot of days, your strength will be down

(sorry, i’m not a english speaker, I do what i can)

#16

Can we focus on different stamina models again? Let’s here some other ideas and discuss pros and cons!
(And please remember that we talk about KCD here, not Skyrim :stuck_out_tongue: )

#17

Isn’t tibia the bone between the foot and the knee?

#18

The developers should also think about implementing sweat to the game. Like in the walking dead game (survival instinct, the epic fail one). It should depent on what armor you have available (being half-naked in a cozy evening is, of course, better that wearing full plate armor in the middle of the day with catapults raining hell around you). It could serve as an indicator of how tired you are getting.

1 Like
#19

Nice idea, there should be as few HUD elements as possible (zero). Even Operation:Flashpoint in 2001 already had that mechanic where you began to wheeze audibly when you’d sprinted too long and then your aim was shaky - all without stamina bar.

#20

Yes, but it also a game =)

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