Carrying a bow: European archer

after i develop strength, etc., i go for headshots with the Cuman 74(?). not perfect but fairly effective for me. iirc, over 1 in 10 of my kills in playline 1 are fatal headshots. think playline 2 (HC) is even better (due to experience)

Since I am on PC I took the option of using Capon’s hunting bow mod, in the 100 version. I call it my War Bow. It does have a low ability requirements tho so is a little unfair. Perhaps it should have been a little harder to use.

It and the gold dot and faster arrows mod and better piercing arrows make the archer quite deadly.
Also it seems WHS added a new kill shot zone: the midsection front or back. As is for me it is a one shot kill there.

sounds like you have a crossbow masquerading as a bow

on un-modded land, if i don’t hit the eyeholes on Germ/Ital bascinet, it’s typically 3-4 shots… sometimes 6. lesser armed can be done in with 1-2

“It ain’t stupid if it works” :wink: I look at as Henry got his hands on an English yew war bow.

Probably weren’t, or at least they were very exceptional. But recurves are useful also for foot soldiers, so this kind of proof works only in one way.

true… horse archers have had some success in history. didn’t and don’t know extent to which Lithuania-Poland-Czechia axis emulated some battle techniques from their eastern neighbors. if there were some even if limited emulation, then there should be accounts, etc as evidence

The you tube series the generals never mentioned horse archers for these guys in their description of battles. Only foot archers and crossbowman if there they weren’t on battle wagons with the musketeers.

These were Hussites, a little bit later then 1403. They used very different strategies and weapons from what was normal before them. That is why they were so able to crush knights so often and with so low casualties on their side. Here in Czech republic we are very fond of Hussites, because thay were so successful against all odds.

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that is true, that a recurve bow is stronger, but it is also shorter, which makes it weaker.
So you can get the same power of a longer bow in a shorter bow by using recurves, this is true.
But the angle of the string is also important in the comfort of shooting, thats why horse archers were using a thumb ring, while longbow archers were shooting with a glove or tap.

“Shorter” does not make it weaker, because draw length is the same. But as you talk about angle, a little curiosity came on my mind. Yes, short recurves can’t be held with mediterranean draw which was common in Europe. BUT there is something called “slavic draw” - look here http://www.rychla-lukostrelba.cz/pozice-sip-a-ruka/drzeni-tetivy-slovanske-drzeni.html either in video or in gallery at the end there is shown how it looks. It is probably a slavic way to overcome string angle problems. I can draw very short turkish style bow without any problems in this way (while I tried that mediterranean draw is really bad for such bow).

Unfortunatelly we know slavic draw only from middle-eastern sources (manuscripts translated to modern english with titles Arab Archery and Saracen Archery). It can’t be found anywhere in sources from central Europe, so I expect that it was developed by slavs living in (or close to) arabian/turkish world. But it is just theory, as always … evidence, that is the problem.

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Interesting, never knew about this drawing technique.

since the vid is in Czech and no subtitles can a description of the hold be typed out?

Sure, sorry. Here you can find Arab archery online: https://www.archerylibrary.com/books/faris-elmer/arab-archery/ , and this is the description of slavic draw there (chapter XV):
The Slavs ( al-Ṣaqālibah ) have a peculiar draw which consists of locking the little finger, the ring finger, and the middle finger on the string, holding the index finger outstretched along the arrow, and completely ignoring the thumb. They also make for their fingers finger tips of gold, silver, copper, and iron, and draw with the bow upright.

(it is modern english translation of original Arabic text written in 1500. Similar description can be found in Saracen Archery, which originates even earlier, I think to 14th century)

In my video somewhere at the end I have short shots from Bhútán, where they switched from original longbows with mediterranean draw to modern short compound bows, which forced them to use something very similar to slavic draw. They developed it themselves, without knowing anything about slavic draw.

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I thought I’d add my little bit to the discussion. This isn’t backed by any research from historical sources or anything, but I remember when I was younger and I used to do a lot of battle re-enactments (popular hobby in Bohemia), we would always wear our bows. Granted, they were a lot weaker than the real thing (even with corks on your arrows, you still wouldn’t want to risk hurting anyone in any permanent way), so maybe it wouldn’t work with a proper longbow, but we would put them on with the string across the chest from the right shoulder to the left hip and the stick around the back. It’s not super-comfortable, but it frees your hands. I wonder whether there’s evidence of anything similar in history or whether it’s even possible with a proper bow.

wouldn’t that put a long term stress on a self bow? also weren’t they covered when not in use to keep dry?

We would only do this when carrying bows over short distances. I’m assuming it’s not particularly good for the bow and it’s probably like an equivalent of hanging a strung bow up on a wall, so you’re probably right.

Alternatively, free yourself of the problem entirely and use a sling!

What if you don’t need to use the sling? well you don’t have to wear it around on your hand like with a bow… No sir, one can merely hang it from your belt. What if you don’t have a belt you say? Simple, you can use the sling as a belt and wrap it around your waist.

Do you hate having to endure agonizing walks through the Bohemian countryside, visiting those pesky fletchers or arrowmakers? Are you worried that they might be upping the cost because you are Henry? Some blacksmith’s son from that one village that the Cuman’s burnt down? Well, Sir. With this magical, glorious invention, you need only find a riverbed, or better yet, smash down some church windows and pilfer some lead. Now you will be killing Knights and Cumans in style, by literally beating their heads in with rocks.

Sir, If that offer is not enough of a deal-breaker for you, you can inscribe rude words or phallic images into your shots. Let the Cuman’s know how you really feel about their incursions, when they sport rude-words-laden bruise-marks.

And, because this is a game, Learning how to use one will be much easier than in real life! :slight_smile:

Kill with skill, kill with style, Kill biblically… Kill like David! Use the sling.

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How much does it cost? I need it now, at least 10 pieces! I can’t live without this ingenious device!

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What is the relative cost of good 15th century Hemp, Flax, Wool or Leather within your kingdom, compared to the price of the average wage of the 1403 labourer?

With this simple answer, the price estimation of the sling can be easily solved, and it will likely be yours… for possibly under a groshen!

Compare this, as you will, to those cantankerous, expensive bows… or those equally atrocious crossbows. You would spend so much groschen on those, you’ll be living under carts for a year at those prices! :wink:

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:slight_smile: Okay, more seriously. Do you have some practical experience with sling shooting? I recently read a bit of Xenophon (Anabasis) and at some point he says that Rhodos slingers outranged Persian archers. Do you know what can be effective range of a slinger with leaden bullet of about 20-50 grams weight? By “effective” I mean that he has to hit a single person (because it seems that Persians were scattered). It would give me some clue about how strong were Persian bows.

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