Yeah, I’d like to see where that came from as well. Could be interesting.
Again…You’re simply wrong. There isn’t an argument to be made here.
“A role-playing game is a game in which the participants assume the roles of characters and collaboratively create stories. Participants determine the actions of their characters based on their characterisation”
Following your chosen definition, they fit perfectly. You wouldn’t even do more than skim them. They perfectly show that you can do exactly what you say roleplaying is. If you won’t even bother watching them, or doing this yourself, you aren’t qualified to have an opinion. You’re only saying things are true. Give me your evidence. I’ve given you mine, it completely disproves your claims. But you aren’t even willing to watch them, and I wonder why.
Once again… Just empty claims based on literally nothing. Out of the two of us, I’m the only one that has presented an actual case, and you don’t want to waste time being disproven apparently.
You’re right, it isn’t the same thing. They do both, but again, your only defense at this moment is your lack of willingness to look at evidence.
Yes… You do. I’m going to have to just copy/paste the same reply to everything you say soon.
No they don’t. I usually insult people that don’t have any case, but treat what they’re speaking about as if it’s commonly understood.
I don’t know why you won’t watch them, they’re very entertaining, and so wouldn’t be solely to prove me right. But again, they do, along with the way I play, and many other people do. If you want to carry on this “debate”, you’ll have to watch through them, and explain why what they’re doing isn’t roleplaying. As what they’re doing fits your definition perfectly. Otherwise you’ll just be repeating: Nuh uh…
As I said earlier, this has probably all arisen from your personal inability (or lack of effort) to do this. You will have to watch others then.
Guys, its okay to debate, but don´t forget about your good manners.
@Wicker, Telling someone he is stupid (because, all you say is, he is but has not notice yet), is not okay and not a good way to convince someone:
@King_Abraham_III, And this is also not okay, insults are not a fine way. Ceep calm and drink some nice tea. Have some biscuits:
You both,
whatever you have to say, you will not be able to convince the other side. You both have left the path of reasoning and gone a few steps into a the way of an dispute. And there topic is not important anymore, its about taking positions…
…you both will not be able to convince the other anymore from that perspective, and I see a lot of frustration in your postings.
Having an opinion is fine, telling about it also. Don´t liking about different opinions is also fine, but if you want to convince someone about it, try to bring him in your boat nicely. Because this is what you want, and you will not be able to do so by insultig your opponent. Have some patience and respect, even or especially because you don´t like the opinion of your opponent.
And if it doesn´t work, get over it.
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My first reply to him pointed him straight to my source (the roleplaying series).
How can I convince someone that refuses to look at my source? It’s like a judge just kicking out the witnesses.
Of course frustration arises from that.
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Sometimes shit happens… don´t get frustrated about it. Change your expectations
…and slowly my package of fortune cookies is getting empty…
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I guess it does…
ಠ_ಥ
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So I watched the first two episodes of the first video. Here’s what he did:
• Said his character will be a hero and fight dragons, which means he will “choose” to do the main quest (that role-playing tho).
• He said that his character is an empire supporter, yet he has no problem with killing empire soldiers.
• He said that his character is not a fighter, yet he easily fights and kills a bunch of trained empire soldier, and is sad that he didn’t get to fight the wolfs.
• He gave his character a name, a race, and a look, something everyone has to do.
• He said that his character was a nice guy who likes helping people, which is really all you ever do in the game.
• Gave his character a background, but did in no way use it as an explanation to his character’s reaction.
• He did not freely choose what to do. He either followed exactly what the game told him to, or chose between one out of two options.
Since you are sometimes, though often not, given the chance to choose between two options, I guess it’s more role-playing than if you had no option at all. However, this does not mean that it is role-playing. That’s like saying that liberalism is socialism because it’s “more to the left” than anarchism, which is just nonsensical and simply not correct.
I’m making a negative claim, thus the burden of proof is not on me.
A sane person would not spend hours going through videos simply to settle an argument on the internet. Use your words instead. Give me specific examples from the game.
Give me a specific example.
Tell me exactly how you can change the outcome of a quest.
Whether something is entertaining or not is purely subjective. What one find entertaining, others might not. People have different opinions.
But I don’t like tea.
No, but really, my statement was not about his/her opinion. I’m fine with him/her having a different opinion than me. All it comes down to is probably just that we have different definitions of the word “Role-playing”. My statement was about how she/he kept insulting me as if I had attacked her/him personally. I do think that the he/she-said-something-bad-about-my-favourite-thing-which-means-that-he/she-attacked-me-personally syndrome is related to one’s intelligence.
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Okay then.
Character: Singard, the “zoologist” (I think that title fits)
Singard, after hearing about the native population of monsters/creatures, decided he would travel to skyrim, in order to create the next entry into his series “The monsters of Tamriel”. Upon crossing the border, he is caught up in an ambush, arrested, and knocked out. (this is where the game starts), the dragon attacks, he escapes, etc.
Upon escaping, his first though is to attempt to study the dragon. But sadly, as he ran in the opposite direction the game would have wanted him too, he has no way at all of knowing where it went. He relents, and decides unless he stumbles upon more information, there isn’t any point in trying to find something that was supposed to extinct for thousands of years.
He is of course happy he is free, and decides to follow through with his plan to research the fauna of this land.
Now then. From here, with this character, you’d spend your time finding and writing about every monster you can find. You’d have to use a real life notebook, or a mod, in order to write. (sorry if that invalidates it for you).
His decisions would be based around finishing his book, game over would be when you’ve described every creature in the game. This would include appearance, weaknesses, general locations they can be found, what kind of things can be harvested from them. And personal experiences.
Now then, I’m fairly certain I just did that/ With no use of any quests whatsoever. At all. Or would you say that isn’t roleplaying? Can you tell me why?
Speaking of which, sorry you didn’t like it. Is stand by what I said, but I won’t pretend it’s fair to ask you to watch the whole series in order to get my point. However, I’m fairly certain the character i just described made my point for me.
Why are you speaking as if I meant that as fact… If I said tomy friend that a movie is great, I don’t think a normal response is “Whether something is entertaining or not is purely subjective” There’s a general understanding that you aren’t speaking as a dictator when you recommend something.
Once again, I’m pretty sure I just described how you can roleplay, and that is a very specific character, jusdt one example. You don’t need quests, you’d do them if your character would. I’d like to know why not.
I hope you won’t say “it doesn’t count, as you aren’t following the games directions”.
is that why you attacked him personally for disagreeing with you?
No. My comment, my single comment unlike Wicker’s multiple ones, was born out of irritation of the insults I kept getting.
Here’s what I wrote:
Did you simply just miss that or do you think I lied?
Well, you could do that with any open world game. Assassin’s Creed, Far Cry, GTA, Just Cause, you name it. Yet none of these are ever called a role-playing game.
You might see it differently, but to me, that just not enough to be qualified as role-playing. I have multiple reasons why, many of which I have already given throughout our discussion, but I don’t feel like writing them down now since I highly doubt it would change anything. You have your opinion and I have mine, and it does not seem like either of us will change their mind. It’s really just having a different definition of the word “Role-playing”.
Here’s what you wrote:
You stated that you don’t know why I won’t watch them since they are entertaining, which would exclude the possibility of me refusing to watch them because I won’t find them entertaining. Elsewise the fact that you find them entertaining being unnecessary to mention. I didn’t want to make a fuss about it, given that it’s probably just a language error, your statement just came out a bit weird.
A role-playing game is a game in which the participants assume the roles of characters and collaboratively create stories. Participants determine the actions of their characters based on their characterisation.
This is the definition YOU GAVE ME.
Does the example I gave you fit?
If now that it does fit, you don’t want that to be your definition anymore, give me your new definition. Maybe this time you want change it once I’ve proven this game fits.
Ever heard of the moving the goalposts fallacy? This is a textbook case…
That is indeed the definition.
And no, I do not think your example fits. I’ve already said this, yet you have never in our debate listen to anything I’ve said. I really don’t see the point of repeating myself. With this, I’m ending this discussion since it won’t give us anything. Neither of us will change our minds.
“A role-playing game is a game in which the participants assume the roles of characters and collaboratively create stories”
Other than collaboration, as this is single player, my example involves creating a story, while assuming the role a character.
“Participants determine the actions of their characters based on their characterisation”
My example revolves around this. That’s all you’d do as a my character, as you wouldn’t even need to touch a single quest beyond the opening.
Sorry, but this is undeniable. Using your definition, I’ve show you (by your request I might add), exactly how you could roleplay within skyrim.
I’ve never experience greater stubbornness, and this is the internet. Usually, people would have the decency to attempt to explain there way out, you can’t even come up with a defense. You’re just saying:
“You’ve done what I asked, but I’m still right, and can’t give you 1 damn reason why”
This is utterly ridiculous. You’re a child. I’ve given you an objective answer, that flawlessly fits your personal definition, and you’re just blocking your ears making noise in response. You just can’t admit you were wrong, even when faced with something undeniable.
“Moving the goalposts since 2015” Wear that on a t-shirt. ◔̯◔
Giving your character a goal and a background is simply not enough to be considered role-playing in my mind. As I’ve already said, you can do this with all open world games, yet many of those are never called role-playing games. Only reason Skyrim is considered one is because it’s set in a medieval fantasy-like setting where you go around and kill monsters. Picking flowers is simply not enough to creating a role-play story or reacting to the world based on your character’s personality. Role-playing is so much more than that. If you are too thickheaded to realise this, then nothing I say will change your mind. Why do you even care what I think? And more importantly, why are you so offended by my opinions? This whole debate started with me saying to someone else that I don’t like a certain aspect of the game, and you started throwing insults at me. I don’t see how I’m the child here. It’s about time you learn that not everyone will agree with you.
My issue is your inability to describe what you mean. You gave me a definition, I perfectly met it’s requirements, yet that isn’t enough.
From where I’m standing, what you’ve done is set requirements, and deny that I met them, regardless of if I have or not.
If what you posted wasn’t your definition of a roleplaying game, tell me what it is. It isn’t a matter of opinion whether or not it meets that definition, so tell me this secret you have hidden, the mysterious hidden traits a game must contain in order for you to deem it an RPG.
It seems that you you’re having trouble separating the definition from the quality you’d like to see in RPGs. If not, tell me, clearly, and definitively: What is an RPG? You said your definition wasn’t enough, so tell me what is.
Clearly it’s nothing you’ve shared so far. If you can’t tell me, you should deeply think about what you’re even trying to say. It certainly isn’t “skyrim doesn’t fit the definition I gave you”. Not at all.
Stop it! You both do post your opinion in a reasonable and and good way.
But don´t add anything like above into your argumentation. It’s not necassary to say such a thing.
And if you really have to say similar stuff, for example if you have some obsessive-compulsive disorder or some sort of that, say it about the behaviour, not the person itself.
“You act like a child” not nice but okay; “You’re child.” Not okay!
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this thread oh my god
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lets tone it down and stay on topic.
continued personal attacks and off topic conversations are what gets topics closed.
prolonged personal debates should be continued through PMs.
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There was Witcher 3 mentioned above, to be honest, it’s one of the most huge disappointment in my gaming life so far. One of it’s major problems is that you can’t properly customize your character (you have an option to go to barber, but it doesn’t help a lot, as he’s still ugly mutant - and Henry so far seems to be even worse without option for blond/red hair and blue/green eyes and other basic things).
Positive thing is, that there’ll hopefully be no monster bosses and various creatures in Kingdom… Ideal setting for building your own family, house, domain, reputation, trading, farming… you name it 
Sad it’s not going to happen in Act 1… 