To be fair, though, we haven’t seen too much of the women in the game yet… 
I doubt this topic would gain any traction or even be thought of by the Dev. Team. Warhorse is trying to make an authentic midevil campaign game, this topic is not relevent to that, plus males caught performing sodomy with another male or animal were put the the sword, guilitine or tortured.
If this topic surfaces in the game it will only be to watch punishment befall the one who committed the act or homosexuality.
1 Like
Staying true to historical accuracy, should homosexuality be included as an in game possibility, then persecution ought also be present, including a brave Knight of the Knights Templar career option.
http://kingdomcomerpg.com/?page_id=266 “Our tale is based upon historical events and takes place in 15th century Europe”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_medieval_Europe Homosexuality in medieval Europe: “Generally, by at least the twelfth century, homosexuality was considered sodomy and was punishable by death. Despite persecution, records of homosexual relationships during the Medieval period do exist. This persecution reached its height during the Medieval Inquisitions, when the sects of Cathars and Waldensians were accused of fornication and sodomy, alongside accusations of satanism. In 1307, accusations of sodomy and homosexuality were major charges leveled during the Trial of the Knights Templar.”
“In the 13th century C.E., the theologian Thomas Aquinas was influential in linking condemnations of homosexuality with the idea of natural law, arguing that “special sins are against nature, as, for instance, those that run counter to the intercourse of male and female natural to animals, and so are peculiarly qualified as unnatural vices.”[8] This view points from the natural to the Divine, because (following Aristotle) he said all people seek happiness; but according to Aquinas, happiness can only finally be attained through the Beatific Vision.[9] Therefore all sins are also against the natural law. But the natural law of many aspects of life is knowable apart from special revelation by examining the forms and purposes of those aspects. It is in this sense that Aquinas considered homosexuality unnatural, since it involves a kind of partner other than the kind to which the purpose of sexuality points. Indeed, he considered it second only to bestiality as an abuse of sexuality.”
3 Likes
I don’t think it’s in any doubt open homosexuality was rather problematic in medieval times, as it continues to be in many parts of the world today. Since my impression is this game strives toward historical accuracy, I agree the game should reflect that in the case of homosexuality too. If Deliverance portrayed homosexual relationship as non-problematic, it would seem a little off in my opinion too. But I do want it to be present, for the very same reason; historical authenticity. If my character would encounter, say a gay couple living in secrecy in the countryside, or two soldiers desperately keeping their affair secret, then found them hanged for sodomy, it would greatly add to my sense of realism I think.
3 Likes
No thanks.
I’d rather they focus on making an RPG as best as they can without bringing this non important issue into it.
2 Likes
No gay person in that time would be open about it though, some managed to have relationships in secret but that’s the thing they were secret.
I believe we are in agreement. I don’t know how it is that many anti-gay people seem to misinterpret our desires. We don’t seek token gestures. Or demand a quota. We, like just about everyone on the kingdom come deliverence forums, want this to be an amazing game. We agree that there should only be homosexuality in a realistic way. So we start there. That is all of our common ground especially for this game above all other games because it fully desires to show the medieval settings and relationships in a realistic way. It might be an enjoyable experience like Zimith said [quote=“Zimith, post:25, topic:14944”]
If my character would encounter, say a gay couple living in secrecy in the countryside, or two soldiers desperately keeping their affair secret, then found them hanged for sodomy, it would greatly add to my sense of realism I think.
[/quote]
That would be an enjoyable and realistic thing for the time period. It would also be rational that some people would be cheering the hanging as their “crimes” are announced to the public.While others might stand and watch in silence. Their reasons only they know.
1 Like
Homosexuality is not a genetic disposition, at least not in the sense that a person displaying such behaviour will only ever be able to maintain just this behaviour.
Homosexuality is merely the result of an over active sex drive, which may indeed be of a genetic nature.
Please do not taint the amazing concept that is KCD with such debased and irrelevant content.
1 Like
it’s not really realistic that there would be people standing in silence around that one execution. if you are to extrapolate that statistically, the percentage of gay people would clearly be too high. in other words, you seem to be placing inordinate amount of emphasis and importance on homosexuality when it was clearly a rare thing that isn’t prevalent or prominent enough to really warrant inclusion.
Citation needed.
At the same time I’m expecting some form of doctoral dissertation covering same-sex engagements in other mammalian species…
Well I can use myself as proof against the claim Joschka makes, though I can understand why he’d fall into such belief. I for one am a heteroromantic homosexual as I stated before. While I enjoy sex I believe in monogamy, as in having only one sexual partner. As such I don’t go out having sex with every hot piece of ass, because it’s not my desire. Know that many women and gay men see heterosexual males as sexual deviants with overactive sex drives.
1 Like
With what I said I did not mean to imply that you as a ‘Homosexual’ are now still subject to an over active sex drive.
I meant to imply that Homosexual behaviour is initiated (mostly during ones younger years) by such a sexual drive.
That this behaviour is seen nowadays as a certain sexual orientation is a mistake in my opinion, it is my belief that there actually is no such thing as sexual orientation but that we all are simply sexual (or bi if you so wish), that you believe to be of a certain sexual orientation is the result of social pressure in my assesment.
I can imagine myself engaging in a romantic partnership with a man, though it would most likely remain a platonic thing as I do not feel the desire to perform anal or oral sex (with man or woman).
It was my intention to voice my hope that sexual perversions of any kind have no place in this game.
There is so much wrong with that statement I hardly know where to begin. Alright, using myself again. I was born into a christian family. I did not have an over active sex drive as a young man far from it. Also things like masturbation and sex before marriage were considered sins. Which made me even more adverse to the whole subject. I hated myself for many years for being attracted to guys (point being not a choice, and sure as hell wasn’t from an over active sex drive)
Next your with your views on sexuality. I believe it’s due from more confusion and lack of information than anything. So from what you said
If true then you’d be a Pan-romantic Heterosexual. Which is similar to myself though I lean more towards Hetero-romantic I believe if I find the right guy (and I’ve met several, they just happen to like women) then I’d be able to fall in love with a man.
Alas you might be pan-sexual as well it depends on if you find men attractive in a sexual way and just don’t like those types of sex.Now I know people tend to pigeon hole sex to meaning penis in vagina penis in anus penis in mouth. However sex is far broader than that. I’ve had “sex” with people and those parts do play their roles but you can be far more creative than just what “positions” you want to take. When you connect with people on an emotional level you can find and exploit their, what I call. hot spots. Find out what pleases them and in doing so you can find greater satisfaction than those cookie cutter sex options.
Alright now the third thing you got wrong is summing up certain sexual attractions as “sexual perversions” that’s a very bad use of the word. Rape is a perversion, molesting a child is perversion. a man loving a man isn’t “perversion”.
With perversion I meant the displaying of sexual acts or refering to them in general (the word pervert for instance does not refer to a ‘homosexual’, but merely to a person with an unhealthy interest in sex), but believe what you want.
I don’t really care about your views just as I don’t really care about sex, all I care about in this case is that this game is not pornogrified as so many things are these days, one way or another.
Now that statement I agree with. If that’s your whole point that’s fine, but those other beliefs of yours just aren’t based in reality.
That is a silly and insulting statement, ofcourse they are based in reality, I live in reality.
You may not agree with them and that is fine, but according to your logic your statement is just as devoid of a realistic base as you claim mine to be.
By the way, I didn’t say anything about choice, what I am refering to is circumstance.
You made the statement that being gay is all about having an overactive sex drive. That is not in reality. That is a fantasy within your mind. One you’re free to enjoy, but don’t mistake it for reality.
Bioware games are always about forming your own character and making choices, also a lot of romances. I feel like they didn’t do it to appeal to more people but just appeal more to the fans they already have. They really want to make your character feel like you, and since hetero sex is already in their game why not add homosexual sex? It’s just a change of npc after all and very little work. However I will say that they push homosexuality down your throat a bit, in Dragon Age 2 I had a quest where I was supposed to get info from this male prostitute. And you had two dialogue options that where very cryptic in what they would do. They were something like “You have something I want” and “I need you to do something” and the objective were just to get info from him. I got it wrong the first time and got the sex-scene xD
yep, and i find it hilarious how they keep harping on about being progressive and tackling issues with their games, to the point that if they include gays and bisexual romance and sex, their own fans still criticize them for not doing enough. they’ll say things like, “wow that gay guy is such a one dimensional portrayal”. nothing they do is enough because of this cult of victimhood they cultivated. sweet justice.
this is why it’s wise to never go down that route of editorializing your games.
you cannot win on these topics because everyone holds such a strong view on the subject . the ONLY game that has pulled this off well that i know of was fable 3 .