Im not asking to be able to trip someone with the quillions here. All i ask is that a weapon’s functionality, especially a weapon which has been historically made to be swung in one hand however less wieldy (there’s a reason the term “true two handed sword” exists), is not lost upon mounting a horse. I don’t know about everyone else but I personally would rather be able to swing a longsword on horseback than hear peter dinklage or whatever other celerbrity’s voice they get.
My point exactly is the claymore is a Scottish variant of the Medieval longsword.
And I look at everything medieval from the English point of view. I know the Scots and Irish had claymores (Highlanders of course.) but the English, from all the records I know of, don’t employ the use of claymores themselves, even after the 1600’s when the English and Scots were mixed together the Scots used claymores while the English used smaller weapons. Longbows however…the French just love those.
If however you do find a reliable source stating the English used claymores themselves, I will give you an apology and state that you are better grounded on this subject then I.
well that’s like saying scotch doesn’t exist cause it’s just the scottish variant of whiskey. And who wants to live in a world without fine scotch?
No you flat out said there was no such thing as a great sword or claymore. You still haven’t provided proof.
Did my Longsword link not show up? Cause your Claymore one showed up and it says:
And again, I look from an English medieval standpoint. Claymores did not exist in England at the time, therefore there is no such thing as a greatsword/claymore. If I were to encompass ALL of Europe, then yes there is such thing a claymore, which is the Scottish variant of the longsword.
It’s like saying katanas don’t exist. They do, but not in Europe, so they don’t exist an they do exist. Think Schrodinger’s cat.
How is any of this relevant? You’re making no sense what so ever. This game takes in Bohemia not England.
Slow, huh?
He took that directly from the kick starter page its not his words. Based on what we’ve seen from their combat videos the long sword will be anything but slow.
Swinging a two-handed sword on foot versus on a horse is an entirely different scenario. For one thing you’re limited to what you can do because the horse is in your path. This doesn’t mean you can’t fight effectively, but most people don’t want to hit their horse in its head or flanks. Second, in the middle of combat when you and your horse are trapped in the melee, you become the big target as you’re higher up, cannot swing any weapon at its full potential and most mounted soldiers couldn’t afford barding for their horse, so one men-at-arms slams his spear through your horse’s chest and you’re going to get pinned beneath its corpse. And not even the best plate armor in the world would protect you from a dagger sliding neatly through your visor. Lastly, while you can turn very easily on the ground so as to fight 360 degrees, fighting on a horse eliminates your rear defense (unless you happen to have it trained to kick its hind legs out.)
In closing, you’re right. The longsword won’t be slow. But it’s also a two-handed weapon, and fighting on horseback makes it difficult to swing.
This I guess is really a question for the devs @TobiTobsen might be able to shed some light on the topic for you
At the end of the day I agree that the argument is valid; yet the way it’s been presented and the resulting discussions have got everybody kind of going around in circles. This for example doesn’t help your cause:
Moving on though I personally would, regardless of effectiveness or otherwise, imagine that the game will indeed facilitate this. If @MaimGames wishes to draw his “Longsword” whilst on horseback… hey, each to their own right
All in the pursuit of realism
Oh that was rude!
As far as it somehow relates to our game or helps the story! You can stick houses on fire in real life… in our game you won’t! Don’t forget that we still create “JUST” a game. Not a medieval rogue-like simulation. There needs to be a border somewhere. It’s a question of time and money!
Yes we are, but as I said… we are doing mainly a game which is as accurate as possible. But there needs to be a balance between game and realism!
I will get more information from the team… but I am very sure that the longsword is no horseweapon in our game… did you ever hold on?! We have some in the studio and it’s heavy as f**k. Swinnging it even with two hands is a slow and clunky freakshow. I may be wrong, that’s just my personal opinion, but I highly doubt the military advantage for a mounted longsword man. However it’s not impossible I guess.
Thanks Tobes
…
Heavy?! Jesus christ, what kind of blacksmith do you guys work with? I get it that it is a bad idea to use a longsword with only a single hand, that much is without doubt, but in two hands it is barely slower (if any) than a one-handed sword! In fact, my 1,59 kilograms longsword is clearly faster than my 0,8 kilograms migration period heavy sabre. At least with my chicken hands, but still. Guys in my group have from 1,3 kilograms gallowglasses; 1,4 kilograms münich-type longswords to 2,1 kilograms monsters - a wide range of beasts, but they all are usable. More or less.
In my HEMA group, people need to conduct researches to achieve certain points in their advancement. One of my colleagues worked on the analysis of the mechanics of the swords, I read in his dissertation that the best fencers of our organization have a hitting time (yeah, way to go, my jolly good english… so the time the sword travels from the basic stance to the face of the opponent) of 0,2 seconds. That is practically within the reaction time of an average human being.
…but I would like to share another dissertation, and that is in the topic of combat on horse with the longsword. With all the due respect, there is no way I’m going to start translating this to english, but there are many pictures, fortunately. As you can see, there is a good amount of grappling. The problem is, on horse, either there isn’t enough time for a second hit (basically there is no nachschlag), or your horse is barely moving, at which point the longsword is kind of unwieldy.
On horse, you can use a longsword, of course, but you can also use a spoon; neither is the best idea. The widely used sword type on horse was always the one-handed type. Longswords aren’t really the firsthand weapons of battle on foot either, but that’s a story for a different page.
It sounds like your swords may be overweight. My longsword (~52" OAL, 40" of that is blade, COB ~3" out from the guard) weighs in at 3lbs (1.36kg). 1-handed swings are completely possible. It’s not as quick or precise as two hands, but that’s a factor of length more than it is weight.
Longswords built today for sport combat aren’t built to the exact specifications as they were back in the 1400s. Who knows, they could’ve been a bit heavier? Or maybe Tobi isn’t used to wielding longswords and it just felt super heavy to him. Last night I held a modern foil for the first time in my life (built post 2005). I weightlift at the gym 3 times per week and I consider myself to be pretty fit, and the foil felt slightly heavy to me (even though its probably up there as one of the lightest swords). I know its because those muscles in my arm aren’t used to holding swords.
What is this, the quinnspiracy? I’m only like 100 lbs and look:
the sword itself is 3 lbs.
Too bad. guess i’ll just have to stick to burning house down in Minecraft.
I care not if its worse than using the arming sword mounted, however I find the idea of becoming unarmed upon mounting a horse quite deplorable, however rarely the situation might arise.
I just think its not very practical and effective to swing a twohander with just one hand!
It’s actually a hand and a half sword, two handers came about during the renaissance.
Longsword flourishes out of the Additional Manuscript (English) make frequent use of one-handed cutting, and in live sparring I’ve found it makes for an excellent surprise attack as it allows you to strike with greater reach without risk of over extending than than is possible with a two-hand grip. Ringen also frequently involves wielding the sword one-handed since the other is busy manipulating your opponent or opponent’s sword.
And no one’s saying using the longsword two-handed isn’t better or more practical than wielding it one-handed, just that it comes across as incredibly arbirary and, as Maim pointed out, quite frustrating if you’re fleeing a horde of enemies, and the moment you mount your horse to run away you’re considered unarmed if all you happen to have is a longsword.
A great deal of horse combat, especially against opponents on foot, wouldn’t see you in a situation where you’re trying to be doing a lot of finesse technique, anyway. Instead it would be a lot of hit and run passes where the unwieldiness of a one-handed swing wouldn’t be a detriment, anyway.