Language style: Old or modern?

Story & Setting
#22

English is my first language and even in English spoken games I often put on the subtitles because it is often hard to hear what is actually being said especially in scenes where there is a lot going on, i.e. lots of sound effects, so subtitles in and of themselves do not bother me. With that said I would think and English spoken (no accents) game makes sense.

It would be nice to pay homage to the local dialect in some ways. Others have mentioned latin in churches which I think would be great. Maybe also some of the banter that goes on amongst the townsfolk could be in Czech. Could be a way for none Czech speakers to learn a few phrases which I would find fun/interesting.

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#23

I don’t think it would be a good idea to make the banter in Czech. It would give you the feeling to be a stranger in this country. Latin in churches however is an brilliant idea!

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#24

If there is dubbing for more languages it would be ok for me if the english dubbing uses “Henry”, because I would use another language and I am sure that his name wont be “Henry” there.

But if english will be the only voice, then “Henry” will break the immersion for me because it makes me think of medieval england


#25

Even though Italian is my first language, I definitely want to see KC Deliverence in English. Like many have iterated, keep the language to early 20th century. I also would like to see Latin spoken in churches if at all possible.

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#26

While this would add more realism to the game, it would be a major immersion-breaker for me.

If I can’t understand it, I can’t immerse myself in it! :smile:

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#27

The banter would be subtitled, which I don’t mind but others may have issue with.

Some would argue that this hurts immersion, but I think it helps. While my character is supposed to be native to this land, I am not and I can keep that distinction separate in my mind. I can’t think of any specific examples, but I know this has been done successfully before where core dialogue is in english but more atmospheric dialogue is in the native language. The results could be terrible if executed poorly, but done right, I think it could really significantly add to immersion.

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#28

I’m used to foreign languages and subtitles (in fact, I can’t watch a dubbed movie
 it kills it for me.) so I’d want to see with whatever Warhorse is most confident in doing.

But it would be really cool to see some mercenary/foreign soldiers speaking other languages between each other and during battles. I’d love to see little bits like that and the Latin in churches idea.

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#29

As an English speaker, I think it would be weird to have an English dub of a game set in Bohemia. I’ll be playing in Czech or German.

If you do an archaic English dub I would appreciate as accurate a version as possible. Thee and thine should definitely be used, but the problem with using second person is you need to either commit fully to at the very least Shakespearean level of language, or don’t do it at all. Speaking modern English with a few thee and thine thrown in sounds like a bad renaissance fair or SCA participant.

If you really want to go all out. It’s not hard to find middle English speakers on the internet. a simple search of “Middle English” on YouTube turns up tons of videos, instructions and examples. I understand how this might alienate a number of English speaking gamers, so another option would be to contact various Shakespeare companies when hiring VO actors.

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#30

“nobody speaks these languages anymore, maybe a few academics”

Up until the Lord of the Rings movies only a few linguists and nerds spoke Elven. What’s your point? :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

#31

It’s a game. A piece of software. Accessibility would be greatly hindered by anything more than the occasional, sporadic, situational use of archaisms as well as forced non-English voiceovers in a game otherwise in modern contemporary English.

#32

Have everyone speak like this!

Seriously though, I don’t care if you’re gonna use modern english. As long as there are no american accents and much too modern words, it won’t take me out of my immersion. It would be much more annoying to me if I didn’t understand a thing and had to read the subtitles all the time. Sure, I am used to reading subtitles, I’m from Sweden and nothing is dubbed in our country except kid’s movies (thank god!)
 but it’s different with movies. Those always need to be in its original language. But when watching movies like Kingdom of Heaven, and you hear them speak modern english, it’s not so bad is it? Even if many characters were actually french.

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#33

It does hurts immersion. Immersion to me is feeling like you are the character, really living the story. If the NPCs speak a language that I do not understand, to me, it feels like they are speaking a foreign language to him. It feels like the character doesn’t even know his bloody mother tongue!

#34

If there can only be one language with subtitles I would suppose English would be the best one acceptable to me, being it is my primary language. However as others have said, I have played games with other languages and english subtitles, so if that makes the game more immersive I would live with that. Putting a gun to my head then Modern English with an appropriate accent would be my vote.

#35

We are here talking about real language. Not some made up nonsense.

#36

Uh, the Elven languages ARE real languages, with complete vocabulary and grammatical rules (though Christopher Tolkien has been frustrating scholars with his glacial release of his father’s notes). They’re no less “real” than any other constructed language like Esperanto. In fact in some ways they’re actually MORE real considering they have an internal (if fictional) cultural history associated with them (whereas Esperanto exists in a vacuum), and even possess some of the nonsensical errata and grammatical contradictions that languages such as English possess (less than English, German and other “natural” languages, but more than other constructed languages like Esperanto).

Besides which you’ve completely ignored my point:

You were arguing it’s impossible to have Middle English and other period languages because “nobody speaks these languages anymore.” When it’s in fact VERY possible to do just that. Actors don’t need to be fluent in a language to act in it, all they need is someone to write their dialog and coach them on pronunciation and inflection.

So pardon my Klingon, but va’egh!

#37

I think I’d like to try Czech with English subtitles for immersion. If I don’t like it I can always change the audio options to English (I assume).

As far as the English spoken in the game, you need to find a fusion between Middle English and Modern English. In order to appeal to as many gamers as possible the language needs to be easy to follow and familiar. Throw in some period terms to keep the atmosphere.

As far as using thee and thou I think that is probably best avoided. Someone earlier in the thread indicated accurately that once you go down that road you have to be all in. It could make the primary language of the game difficult to script or to follow.

That’s my two cents.

#38

The other issue is using thee, thy and thou correctly, and that can be tricky to remember (“thou” if it’s the subject, “thee” if it’s the object). And then you have the -st and -th ending for the verb/adverb (thou dost, thee hath, thou askest, etc.). Oh, and on top of that you have a completely separate plural (ye and your). Y’know, stuff that Modern English has lost.

However if the script writers are familiar with languages that still possess those differences, I’d imagine it ought to be easier for them to keep it all straight.

1 Like
#39

First of all: Czech voice acting would be absolutely fantastic.

Failing that, modern english would be just fine. Then again, I do have a massive personal bias against using archaic bits of a language and mixing them up with modern english so anyone can understand what the hell are those people saying. It just doesn’t make any sence to me and I have never felt like it adds authenticity - language should be means to an end, a way to convey a message. Anything that stands in the way of comprehending this message should be thrown out of the window.

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#40

I wouldn’t mind seeing some of it sprinkled in throughout the game. However, I think if the archaic language requires the player to research what they are reading/hearing, it won’t work.

As mentioned, the dialogue/your responses will be a large part of the game with a short time to respond. So, if anything is lost in translation, it could be very frustrating and inhibit a player from making the choice they wish to make.

As long as there is plenty of context and the language adds to the level of immersion, it would work.

Whatever additions of archaic language exist in the game should be defined and made available perhaps in the form of a glossary, given that a player’s exposure to such manners of speech could vary greatly. This would give everyone an equal chance at avoiding confusion and potentially ruining/infringing on their ability to play the game smoothly.

#41

@warhorse
I thought about language options for some days now.

I think, the player should be able to choose either to play in ‘English’ (or one of the other localizations you’ve planned) or ‘Authentic’ (like in Crysis when you play on Delta difficulty). Authentic means the characters speak their native languages. The player can also decide what language he likes for the subtitles.

This kind of natural language representation worked splendidly in Inglourious Basterds. Why don’t do it in a game?

They are doing English and German anyway so they only have to add Czech. Shouldn’t be that big of a deal.

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