Master Strike is OP, needs serious nerf for player and AI

The way I “get the most” out of “training” with Capt Punching Bag: back him into a corner by holding down W and then repeatedly tap F. Not sure, but I think these are “master strikes?”

Basically, as long as i keep doing this, and apart from it just being tedious, there is virtually no “cost” to doing it; with my build of Henry he can do it all day long without needing to pause (until his hunger grows I suppose), Capt Bernie stays in a perpetual loop of going from the “knocked back / off balance / aghast facial expression” to being punched with the right-hand pommel of whatever weapon I’m using.

This may require fairly high strength and vitality if not also some modicum of skill in the weapon in question. But I have the feeling just ~15 strength, ~15 Vitality and ~12 Agility is sufficient even if a particular weapon skill is at 0. Maybe warfare might need to also be in the 10 ballpark?

Easiest way to level up the combat related skills and abilities that I have found, though tedious.

WH is to be applauded for trying to deliver a truly immersive system for character growth and combat. But it needs a rework and it would seemingly be doable by adjust parameters or perhaps introducing a few more conditionals / functions into the underlying source code.

That is a clinch followed by a strike which you are preforming. Master strike is preformed by pressing Q before green shield appears when someone attacks you.

My issue isnt leveling up skills, its the player taking damage despite the player doing everything right. Also the player doing damage for a simple well timed button press.

Youve basically confirmed you dont do combos because you have the option of avoiding DMG completely via repeated clinches.

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This is the main issue of the combat engine and has been like this for ages.
The skill scaling and the ease with which master strikes can be executed at high enough skill levels (11-12+) unfortunately turns combat into a series of quick time events. Press a button when the game wants you to and win.

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Yep. I’ve tried combos against Capt Bernard: STR and VIT 20, AGI 18, level is at leat 15, Warfare and every salient weapon skill 15+ (some are lower but this applies to the higher ones just as much as the lower). I’d say they manage to penetrate his defenses maybe . . . 10% of the time?

Why bother?

Hmmm, well im glad im not he only one who feels this way, I downloaded no mo slo mo, only disables master strikes for the AI though, I do like the removal of the Slo mo though.

Any way to disable master stike for the player??

Ive been looking at other mods but they are all outdated,

oldonost causes crash
and combat improved uses old stats for weapons and armour

Oh no, don’t tell me that…I’m just about to reinstall the game after about 9 months and I was hoping I could maybe wring some sort of challenge out of the combat through mods, and here you are telling me they’re all outdated. -_-

want a challenge from combat? play hardcore mode and force yourself to use armour pieces with less than 20 defense and get into big group fights

Immersive Balance outdated

& Ultimate Realism Overhaul looks like its in date but I dont know if it would be fun

I noticed it too, that a lot of the mods were from earlier versions of the game and haven’t been updated.

It seems that most of the “mods” that address these things are actually just edits to a parameter file. I’ve been thinking how I would elaborate the perk system if I were to crack open those files; I have “perkaholic” but even that seems like it only goes part way . . . If I do look into those files, I will think about these matters as well.

IM looking through the disable AI master strike file in nomoslowmo mod to see if there is someway to disable it for the player, came across these lines, I suspect special perfect block is the master strike. I dont know if this has disabled master strike though

<row rpg_param_key=“MaxPerfectBlockSlotModifier” rpg_param_value=“0.85” /
<row rpg_param_key=“MaxSpecialPerfectBlockSlotModifier” rpg_param_value=“0.6” /

The below line is a negitive so maybe this disabled master strikes??

<row rpg_param_key=“CombatAutoSPBWeight” rpg_param_value="-1" /

Honestly I dunno. Im not a technical wizard so I dont know how to disable master strikes. I cant even fine the core games equivalence of this file

Im gonna play with masters strikes in place, as I dont want to be able to do them if the AI cant. God I hope someone makes a mod to disable or greatly reduce frequency of master strikes

There are ways to reduce the probability of Masterstrikes. For exemple, by landing a strike in a direction opposite to their weapon stance, the window for a master strike is significantly reduced.

On the other hand, you can make masterstrike easier on your part by moving your weapon stance to mach the ennemy’s side before they strike.

I suspected that after berand did the same master strike to me five times in a row when I tried scarmaker on him repeatedly ha! But the reality is he has master striked me mid combo when he was flinching from my strikes… obviously feinting will help reduce master strikes… but the majority of my combos start post clinch or post player master strike

Well, as for me, I definetely have problems with performing combos to start with (comfortable mouse sensivity for me while out of actual fight is too high to pick any certain direction really fast while in a fight - I miss needed side of attack, so have to start from the beginning). Also, only complete retard as an enemy will allow me to perfom some 3-stage combos, don’t even touch 4-stage ones, without actually interrupting me (and we speak just about 1 vs. 1 fight) - but do I really need combos in a fight with such enemy, when I can just stab him 3-4 times in a row and he passes out. Casual but it works.

When in a fight with full plate high level marauder, I chose not to fight first of all - and just turn him into the needle pad with arrows. When you roleplay light armored hunter/archer, other choices will be retarded. Especially trying to outmatch such enemy in swordsplay, when he CAN perform combos without much problem, but you are not. So, master strikes for me are the only choice to “do something cool”. As I play with hunting swords (or short swords), they don’t help much with one-hit-win-fight, just distract the enemy, but it looks “not bad”.

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Im using the no slow motion mod, and I finding getting master striked much more tolerable now. A lot of my frustration with the system has gone. I think without the slow motion master strikes and parries dont break the flow of combat as much. The mod doesnt eliminate the base problem with master strikes just helps me tolerate them more.

To clarify I do really like the combat system in the game.

@Logist Im making a new thread now on Combos to discuss them, I blame the tutorial for alot of people not being able to carry them out.

As do I. It is just sometimes too unfriendly to such casuals as I. On the other hand, until game allows me to play through archery, short blades, stealth and poisons (my regular modus operandi since Skyrim), I’m okay with it.

Would appreciate, if you summon me there.

There is a mod on Nexus that might have what you want in terms of nerfing NPC use of Master Strike?

Makes too many changes for me, but if someone wanted to take apart his files and see how it is that he is changing the master strike stuff, might be of use.

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@dichebach @CowabungaKid

That looks like a fun mod Dichebach, I might try it out next playthrough

I just installed the No Mo’ Slowmo mod myself and…DEAR GOD THIS IS SO MUCH BETTER. I actively hate myself for not finding that sooner. I mean…it’s still just QTEs at the end of the day, but the combat flow is so much better.
Although I will say that it feels like removing the slow-motion effects actually makes combat easier, which makes sense when you think about it…the slow-mo never actually helped with timing or anything like that because it only kicked in while the block/counter animations were playing themselves out. But I’ll also say that I used to have some minor framerate issues here and there due to the slow-motion effects and those are obviously gone as well.

definitely keeping this mod installed until the end of time and to be honest, having now tried it, I have to seriously question the decision to include any slow-motion effects in combat in the first place.

I might give this a try as well, thanks for linking it.

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I have to question several of the design decisions in the combat part of the game, but that is not to be dismissive, patronizing, or be-littling to Warhorse or all the minds who contributed to the system. As a “first draft” of a signature combat system for this studio, it is astoundingly good. The obvious goal of it is: make NPCs more than just meat bags which the player darts around chopping into little bits.
This motive is to be applauded. There IS NO SUCH THING as “artificial intelligence,” much less in a PC game, what we have are “computer opponents” and “Computer Opponent combat algorithms.” This means that, the system by which combat is implemented can have a tremendous impact on how well those non-thinking, non-knowing, non-aware, non-existent illusions of “entities” which are created by the meticulous orchestration of rendering, animations, and local value/function updates with each cycle of the app, seem to “perform” in combat. Ever since the early 1990s, the solution in many combat games with a human-scale perceptual framework has been to used turn-based combat. high-frequency user perception, appraisal and action–experiences which have become synonymous with “computer game” for a whole generation or two of gamers–a set of user experiences and responses we might call “Twitch Gaming,” were not much of an option until the later 1990s and even then, for games where roleplaying elements and stat/attribute based systems were sought, “Twithc gaming” formats didn’t offer many advantages. This has changed, or perhaps “is changing” and Warhorse are part of that very welcome and intriguing change. I applaud them for their innovation and ingenuity.

With all that said: Combat has a LOT of rough edges. To be fair, and more importantly, to not speak out my ass (or TRY not to anyway), I think that because the systems in the game are novel, one cannot get a “good read” on one’s own response to the system without (a) plenty of try and retry; and perhaps even a (b) step back and start over and try something different; if not © repeat A & B a couple times.

I say this because: in plays #1 and/or 2 (Normal mode and now deleted playline) as a completely brand new bow user toon, I fired probably 6 or 7 arrows per hare killed. In play #3 (also a Normal mode now deleted playline) I managed to kill ~110 hares and maybe 8 people with bow by firing around 450 arrows. A definite improvement! I don’t know what it was n Play #4 (a shelved hardcore I can still go back and finish but probably won’t) but I’m confident that now in Play #5 I’m doing a LOT better, more like 2.5 arrows to kill 1 hare on average. Partly this change in my user performance with the game system is that I am approaching the whole “rpg” part of it differently. Plays 1 through 4 were “sane normal, mostly in character Henry,” whereas Play #5 is “Psychopathic serial killer Henry” who literally did as much carnage in Skalitz before going to help Dad finish the sword as possible. I literally wanted to see just how much XP and skill/attribute gain one could milk out of Skalitz (as well as loot) if one threw all pretense at being a “normal henry” out the window. I literally picked EVERY herb, punched EVERY cow, stealth attacked/kidnapped/and repeatedly stealth attacked four or five innocents, and then stealth killed another 6 or 8, including 4 or 5 guards. I killed the Bailiff and the catchpole, I robbed probably 75% of what there was to rob. By the time I arrived in Rattay my toon looked like this:
Main: 7…Def: 0…Alch: 0.8
Str: 9+1…Wrf: 3…Drink: 4
Vit: 6+3…Axe: 0…Herb: 20
Spc: 3+1…Bow: 1…Horse: 0.6
Cha: 6…Mace: 1…Hunt: 0.0
Vis: 59…Pole: 1…Lock: 0.9
Cons: 55…Swrd: 2…Maint: 8
…Unarm: 3…Pick: 0.0
…Read: 0.0
Buffs: Padding; Resistance
Reputation: Rovna 0
Talmberg 50
Skalitz -100

I had a stack of probably 2500 or 3000 pounds of loot which I left in the trunk in the house (in order to be able to access it, I had to get passed the bandits on the way from Talmberg to Skalitz, grab that loot (without going anywhere NEAR by parents body and risking getting locked into Skalitz by some scripts, and then slow walk it to a storage container in the one of the buildings southeast of the castle in the valley; I went back and grabbed this a few days after getting active from Rattay and cashed it in with the blacksmith at the quarry for around 1500 or 2000 groschen worth of coin and goods, and that is even with the hardcore price adjust).

Which is to say: it is impossible to say with certainty whether my improved performance with the bow in play #5 version the first four is in fact because I have a better implicit understanding of how to play the game (better perception, appraisal and action with monitor, keyboard and mouse) or whether I’m finding it easier since my toon is considerably more powerful right out of the gates.

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