Performance on loading every npc. (suggestion)

Gameplay
#4

Every decision that isn’t life altering for the NPC should be ignored if not in the area. I don’t need to know Hurgleschmidt ate an apple today instead of a peach or slept in a different room of his house. But if he engaged in an activity that may kill him that is important.

I get the game should be as realistic as possible but you have to draw the line between realism and performance somewhere. If the final game runs similar to how the beta runs I’d rather the AI be dumber for more performance. I’m not sure about everyone else but I’m hoping I can get 60fps+ on lowest. And since in the beta you get about the same fps on maximum and lowest it worries me that Vavra said his target is 30fps on a livestream. The game is cpu heavy, which means if his goal is 30fps and the majority of the stress is on the cpu end then turning the game to lowest will still be about 30fps. If the stress is mostly on the gpu then 30fps is fine, I expect to just turn a few settings down to get 50+.

If WH doesn’t fix it someone will probably just make a mod that simplifies the AI and it’ll be extremely popular, which ends up being wasted effort on WH’s end.

#5

Oh crap. He said that? 30fps on a PC is just unacceptable.

#6

It’s acceptable if he means ultra, because CryEngine 3 is using some very new tech such as VXGI. What I’m worried about is if the majority of that 30fps limit is coming from the cpu then turning down graphics options will not really make it increase which is a huge problem. I don’t play any games on PC unless I can get 50fps+, which with my rig isn’t an issue.

Even console users are getting more used to 60fps as games begin to target it more with the new generation. If KCD releases peaking at 30 on console at 720p it’ll be a clunky experience.

#8

Have a set schedule for every npc instead of them making decisions. Have a weekly routine for every one of them, and a monthly forecast for every month, meaning when it rains at x time every seperate npc is to do x decision. No options for the NPC’s, just have preset programmed decisions, except for the very few ones that need to have optional decisions.

While I do like the simulation of NPC’s making decisions on their own, if it is going to slow everything down and keep it down I suggest using the idea I have above.

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#9

This is pretty much what Skyrim/Fallout do. And it’s completely fine, no one is complaining. People complain more about the dialogue and how AI reactions, which KCD does better.

#10

He is a graphics whore and he likes xbox :smiley: . He was talking about consoles…

#11

He didn’t mention consoles when he said it, he just said it in general. Again I’m fine with ultra being targeted for 30fps, just as long as I can turn down a few things and make it higher. When games push visuals it’s expected that they run slower on the gpu. We’re all worried about the cpu here.

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#12

When you say in general that you want to optimize the game for a number of fps you are generally talking about consoles. You cannot talk about exact number in PC realm. The goal there is that it should run on average PC. Of course they will try to optimise as much as they can so more people can buy and play. But yes, he is a guy who prefers better graphics over 60 FPS… I am sure they solving AI is the priority right now and I hope they do a great improvement there.

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#13

Except for Skyrim and Fallout its just one day, whereas my idea is per week :smiley:

#14

So if its cpu bound should I be buying one of the new Broadwell 10 core / 20 thread chips to improve the frame rate?
Would a haswell-e hex core OC’d to 4.5 or higher help?

#15

It is not.
Without storing information about every NPC only other option is to reset them everytime you appear.
Meaning that they would have “starting points” from which they would start again and again. Which would mean that you could affect only few NPCs that would have to be specificaly programed to act in some way to your specific action.
Without storing this informations people would not have thier life cycles, They woud be lifeless bodies like in every other game.

That is reasonable fear, but unjustified. I dont think that WH would release game that runs on 30fps at best and can drop to single digits. They just woudnt be able to afford it if they intend to relase Act2.

#16

Not the storing part, the long distant simulation part.

#17

That is connected. If you dont store information from every NPC (even the far away ones) then how is the game supposed to know what the NPC is supposed to do when it is eventually loaded?

#18

I know WH doesn’t want to spawn people in it, but couldn’t it be so that the NPC spawn at a logic location (for example their farm or their shop (at 13 o’clock for example when the player is near) or that they spawn at the local tavern. And from there make their decissions. That way the game doesn’t have to store every NPC’s location and then the npc’s still have their own decisions. so for example: the smith spawns in his house when you are 2 km away from him. then when you are there he could have had ennough idea’s for what he wanted to do (eat, work, drink) but it doesn’t have to be 1 spawn point. It can be at the tavern, the shop, the place he works, the street, the woods. I understand that would make a problem for spawning, but you can programm it so, that a npc can’t spawn at the same place as the oter (like in the same square meter) and not all spawn in the street, so for that you could make a logaritm, like 3 on the streets, 2 at the bar, 5 at their home working (for example) and then the do what they would do what they would normaly do.

I think this will improve both cpu and it will still be the npc’s who make the decissions for themself.

#19

Yes there will be spawning, WH test this in the beta with some “random events”. The first cuman on the road behind the quarry came from nowhere. It´s a scripted event.
In the moment all the AI needs to much CPU power, and will be (hopefully heavy) optimized. It´s their goal to bring much more live into the streets.
Maybe WH will do a mixed strategy. Important NPC with full AI, and “placeholder” NPC with a basic AI, which disapear when the Player is around the corner.
But this is just my 2 cents…
:smile:

#20

WH explained this on today live stream. In short, they are implementing some kind of LOD for AI just as you suggested.

#21

You’re mixing up state saving and simulation here. If you weren’t near the npc when you logged out, then just load it assuming it’s a regular day at that time for that npc (unless dead)

#22

The current bottle neck is 100% CPU.[quote=“GingerFOX, post:20, topic:27257, full:true”]
WH explained this on today live stream. In short, they are implementing some kind of LOD for AI just as you suggested.
[/quote]

I must have missed that part.
It makes sense though. How does an NPC that is on the other side of the map deciding to eat an apple instead of a loaf of bread effect the game in the slightest?

Was a great stream though and good to hear that everything is being taken on board.

#23

I have a 4930k (6 cores, 12 threads) that’s overclocked to 4.4GHz and I don’t really get over 45fps. The bottle neck is happening on a single core so if they can optimize the games to use more cores then they are golden.

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#24

Dark,
What graphics setup? Which resolution? Low, medium, high graphics settings? Where in the game?
45 would be a big improvement for me. I’m typically getting around 28.

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