Excellent post!
Balla. 
Although it was a bit earlier than the setting here in the Middle Ages, I think a perfect example of a woman who commanded the respect and loyalty of her people was Boudica during the Ancient times. I agree with you, @DeathDaisy that as crazy as it seems strong women were more readily accepted during those periods than they seemingly are in todayâs civilized society by some people (men and women both).
3 Likes
âAvenging the dead, safeguarding the kingdomâs rightful ruler, and restoring order will prove no small feat for our adventurerâ.
I canât see how this means the blacksmith will have major role in countryâs politics. Bodyguard of prime minister certainly doesnât change politics of country. And our blacksmith isnât meant to be more than that. Knight isnât king nor duke. Also Dan stated heâs just a normal guy minding his own business who gets somehow involved in ongoing events (link) and heâs definitely not in charge. Also have been stated he wonât be in command of any army, being involved in battles only as a regular soldier. Doesnât sound like major role in countryâs politics to me.
For the rest, so you say there were dozens of somehow powerful women in like what - whole middle ages? And that we actually donât know even about these beacause men havenât written it down? And based on this you think a low-born female who decide to be a warrior, wearing armor and trying to fight men wouldnât be treated like a freak and mocked? Ok, maybe itâs just my imagination, but I strongly disagree. I actually think you contradict yourself. You speak about dozens of exceptions in like 1000 years period and based on this conlude rules of behavior towards women? Or else, dozens in 1000 years are not ârare examples of exceptional womenâ?
And for the record, Iâm no chauvinist at all, although Iâm sure Iâll be perceived as one. I have nothing against females in games and Iâm actually quite pleased by that female quest line added. I just think that making both playable genders while keeping it realistic is simply impossible whitout making two different games and that standalone main female character in this madieval realistic setting simply wouldnât be belieavable without huge changes which actually not many people would be ok with.
Well from what Iâve heard the female character is not a gender for the main character and is instead a side story that is not very long and is linked to the main characters story. Itâs not like you can choose whether to play as male or female. You (Henry the main character) are male. The unnamed female character is a different character who will be playable at some point in the game. If the female character is secondary and has a unique story line itâs entirely possible to make it realistic.
1 Like
Dragon Age⊠âdevoid of any personalityâ? Excuse me butâŠwhat?
Both DA titles have so much personality they could burst. Rich art/style, Character/Backstory, Detailed history, Intricate plot, Progression, Relationships⊠Really. Origins had like 8 different origins to choose from, with different consequences/relationships/events every play-through. It was incredibly easy to become the player. DA2 is different because you canât fully customize Hawke, you guide Hawke- Just like how we will guide the Blacksmithâs son.
2 Likes
Looks like Tumblr is leaking again.
2 Likes
da art style is generic cartoon fantasy. it features some of the most annoying character designs ever committed to any artistic medium. like that atrocious dwarf character.
as for the topic, iâm sorry, but âhistorians were chauvinistsâ isnât any sort of evidence for what some of you are proposing, ie female warrior.
There actually were many women warriors throughout Ancient Times and the Middle Ages (I wonât waste everyoneâs time here, but if you google it youâll get a nice list). While I mentioned Boudica who was a queen (as many of them were some form of nobility), one that certainly wasnât is Joan of Arc (she was extremely poor). In that respect, you are absolutely correct; people thought she was crazy and a witch, but many still followed her. And yes, you are also right, that these women WERE the exception, not the rule. I think thatâs the pointâŠthat they DID exist and most were treated with respect and loyalty (even Joan until they didnât need her anymore).
And I donât think you appear chauvinistic, you just have a differing opinion than some of the others. That doesnât make it bad or wrong. Isnât that what discussions are about?
1 Like
Indeed. Itâs all done and dusted, so Iâm not sure why this is still being discussed. Tomb Raider features a female only protagonist, and I have yet to see any men being put off playing it because of that.
Or The Longest Journey or Syberia.
Bringing up Boudica is just stupid⊠thats what? 1340? years before? Using female soldiers today would make more sense. That is only 600 years. (and bringing up modern soldiers would also make no sense)
We have many Female rules⊠both among the nobility and some who ruled their own realms in their own right.
(Danish Margrethe I who ended up ruling Danmark, Sweden and Norway is oneâŠ)
But there is no evidence that there where many female warriors during the medieval period.
There where some, and we know about them exactly because they where special.
Ruling an area⊠and even actually planing military campaign is in no way the same as being a âwarriorâ and actually fighting.
1 Like
I believe the gameâs story is fiction, so it shouldnât matter if you are male or female. I believe historical accuracy has to do with the type of armor/weapons and combat that the game would have and not the fiction of the story or characters.
If it is going portray historical events then it wouldnât be very good for an open world sandbox RPG game (like Skyrim but without Dragons/Magic and an emphasis on realistic combat).
3 Likes
Under Features, again on the Kickstarter page: âLead the charge in enormous, open field battles and sieges. You are no superhero. If youâre going to take on an army of enemies, you better find one of your own to back you up.â Another quote from that page: âWin hearts as a popular bard, persuading nobles with your silver tongue and convincing them to fight one another.â I can honestly not understand how you can argue that the main character wonât have a major role in politics. Political intrigue is the point of the game. Are you seriously suggesting that you are playing a character with no impact on the story of the country in the game, when the whole intro to the story part in the presentation of the game talks about politics? And if the protagonist doesnât have an impact on politics, as you suggest, the problem of a female character grows even smaller.
âAnd that we actually donât know even about these beacause (sic) men havenât wrote it down?â You completely misread my post. That is not at all what I said. My examples show perfectly well that several was written down. What I am saying is that those stories are not brought forth to the public. They are not talked about. I could give you a whole lecture on the problem of early academic history, anthropology, ethnology and archaeology, and how 19th and early 20th century nationalism and ethnocentric ideas has affected public perception and representation of history up to this day, and the disconnect between what stories gets told and what the academic fields actually think. There is a whole, large discipline within history and cultural heritage research that studies just that.
Furthermore, this next quote really gets to the core problem of this argument: âOk, maybe itâs just my imagination, but I strongly disagreeâ. I have given several examples and sources in my posts, all based on facts put forth by modern historians, all easily verifiable. You are basing your posts on your opinions, based on nothing, as far as I can tell, and yet you are asking everyone in this thread to accept your ideas of history as the correct one.
But letâs continue. The rest of the same paragraph as the above quote was taken from is about how exceptional women through history are still rare enough to be disregarded because my examples stretched a 400 year period. The 1000 year argument I must assume included Mestorf among the examples, which wasnât actually the point, I just noted that her story is interesting. Your arguments here are problematic on a few levels, and I will make a few points about them. Again, I repeat that my examples are not in any way the lot of them. Furthermore, if dozens of examples from roughly the relevant time frame are still rare enough to deserve disregard, I challenge you to put forth examples of what must be the everyday occurrence of heroic men. And regarding the time frame, I say that the 1381 example is serendipitously close to the 1403 date that the game treats, and the earlier ones are still definitely close enough to the time date to be relevant. Do you think that when you make historical fiction you exclusively use sources from the specific year the fiction takes place? Also, I wonât argue that women didnât have a tougher time or that women were universally equal, no one in their right mind would do that, but I must say that the notion that this makes their still numerous stories unworthy of telling is worrying to say the least. I say that makes their stories even more interesting, if anything.
Finally, again in the same paragraph: âYou speak about dozens of exceptions in like 1000 years period and based on this conlude (sic) rules of behavior towards women?â. These are conclusions I base on actual academic research, and conclusions I am not alone to have drawn, as the interviewees in the BBC article are testament for. The discipline of gender history does not consist of me alone. Women make up roughly half the human population, it would be the greatest mystery of all if they had had no impact on our world.
And I will refrain from commenting on your character. The conclusion you draw, however, that âmaking both playable genders while keeping it realistic is simply impossible whitout making two different games and that standalone main female character in this madieval (sic) realistic setting simply wouldnât be belieavable without huge changes which actually not many people would be ok withâ is still not backed up by anything other than your opinion. This is again the problem I described above; you are assuming that your grasp of history is the correct one, and disregards any and all evidence I put forth because they do not fit with your preconceptions.
You did the same with the statistic that 40% of gamers are women. You disregarded that entirely based on your belief that women donât play RPGs. This is false. My time studying game culture and game development at university showed me that women play as much varied genres as men, both through anecdotal evidence in that roughly half the class consisted of women who were âgamersâ, and through the research that was presented to us during the courses.
I do not judge character, mind you, I bet you are a great guy, but maybe you can see that your arguments are standing on shaky ground.
5 Likes
Iâm sorry you feel my example of Boudica was âstupid.â I clearly stated earlier that it was from Ancient Times, not Medieval, but she was just that, an example. Iâve said all along I agree with the storyline the way it is, otherwise I wouldnât have spent the money to support a game I didnât believe in the way it was presented. Forums should be an opportunity for people to freely express themselves without being personally attacked, whether we agree or not. Some posts may not be as accurate or informed as we would like but it doesnât make the contribution less valid. Correcting a fact is one thing, feelings and opinions are another.
1 Like
Just⊠wow.
First, we donât know about most of them, as I spent the better part of 1300 words to describe a few posts ago. Second, in what way would a story being special make it unfit for telling?
You are not playing many characters. You are playing one. And even then, you have the choice to not be a warrior.
You are picking one example, which was admitted to be much earlier in the very post she was mentioned in, and use it only to insult the poster. Not very constructive.
6 Likes
Boudica is simply not relevant for the topic. Just like modern female soldiers is not relevant.
BLUEâEYEDâGATOR wrote that there where many female warriors⊠and I simply donât agree. And Iam still waiting for any sort of evidence to support that statement.
Iam not that much against a female character using weapons⊠I agree that we are playing the one special character that can be the exception⊠to what was normal. So I donât have a problem with a story that would be very rare.
(I think many expect the male character to become a knight⊠something that was similar not common)
But Iam very much against the Idea that female warriors was not very very rare.
And please remember that a female ruler, even one who actually planed military campaign do not mean that she was trained as a warrior.
2 Likes
Are you joking? They werenât literary master pieces DA:.O was an ok game but it wasnt something that defined a whole genre or anything, bioware games are as bare-bones as RPGs can possible get. That being said DA:2 was the worst game the be released in a long time,
that being said, all these SJWs, and biodrones, oy vey.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree on Boudica as I donât think you are understanding my thought process of her as an example, not as an example as it relates specifically to this game and time period. As to the âmanyâ I possibly misspoke in the true definition of âmanyâ being the masses. Whatever the appropriate word between âseveral (more than 2 but less than 10)â and âmanyâ would probably be more fitting. My mistake.
Iam sorry, calling it stupid was uncalled for.
But I do think is not a good example to use because it was so many years before the period for this game.
If you want to prove that females could lead and rule, then there are a number of female rulers from the medieval period that more fitting. The Breton War of Succession is one war where strong noble women was actively involved.
1 Like
Thank you. I appreciate the acknowledgement Itâs all good.