Realistic archery

Combat system
#245

This matchs exactly the data in the site that I posted the link. But, in that site, the english longbow that match the 175 ft/s (53,36 m/s) was a Pacific Yew with 55lb.

That is why I sugest that we don´t use pull force as a conclusive data… because those guys must check this with different methods. The arrow’s speed and weight are all we need to know.

I also searched for another sources about modern composite bow’s arrow speed, and they matched the Master´s specifications… I believe that modern composite bows fire their arrows in that 325ft/s (99m/s). But I blieve that this arrow speed is with carbon fiber and other light materials

I´m talking about modern composite bows because I believe that a lot of people here has real experience with them.

#246

Well, the first problem with that page is that they don’t use the metric system, and if you want to be taken serious with any sort of science you need to do so. (with the exception of the pull of a bow since that is traditionally defined in lbs)
:wink:

If you use a heavy bow with a too light arrow that actually cut its range since it will not fly true.
That is why you would get the same velocity with a strong bow as a week one. The arrows need to fit the bow.

The book mention that 80J is what is needed to be lethal.
That the initial Ke (J) is in the 111-134 J range. and the impact I mentioned above is at the ranged mentioned.
Arrows are very good at keeping its velocity and hit with 76-82% of the initial velocity. (they accelerate when dropping down at the end of the flight)

1 Like
#247

What is the difference to Science if using ft/s and m/s if?

#248

the old imperial system is stupid and a lot harder to calculate. since it is not a decimal system.
And the moment you want to use the numbers in any sort of calculation it is a lot easier with a decimal system.

The same can be said about the old danish, or sweedish or… system.

Also Danish feet is not the same as British Feet, or Swedish feet or…

The metric system is a lot easier to use since it is a decimal system , And it is standardized across the globe.
Only the United States, Myanmar and Liberia don’t use it.
(and partly the UK. But they only use the old system for some specific things… and not for science…)

If you want to be taken serious in science you use SI units.

And since this forum is in no way only populated by Americans and Brits, using the International system would be the polite thing to do… and allow everyone to debate scientific stuff without any misunderstandings.

If I started using danish inches, feet, kvint or pound and you use the imperial system, we would get results that are not the same.,

2 Likes
#249

So your reasoning is, you refuse to accept a source because it uses a measurement system you aren’t familiar with? Seems like you’re just too lazy to Google simple metric imperial conversions.

#250
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#251

I can only agree with you, mate.

I just used the imperial because I don´t know this forums demographics… my mind work in metric system and I posted using a unity conversor by my side lol But I think that very good science can be made with both measure systems (Imperial System has it´s own way to divide feets… not pratical to us, but they works as good as).

About the table I posted… I don´t think that is scientific stuff, just an entusiast sharing his experience… that´s why I didn´t take that as a kind of definitive rule. But the lad in that site used a very aceptable method to gather that data and give it in a very organized way. And diferent sources are showing us very similar results. Factory specs, enthusiast websites, specialized books, Baron´s hunting and shooting experience, my hunting and shooting experience.

Whatever… I´m still curious to know the ingame bow & arrows data and what real counterpart they are based on.

#252

No because they where lazy and didn’t make their page in a system used the the hole world, save the US an UK. (or they could just have done it in both)
So clearly they are not sure that their job is worth reading for anyone else.
If you want people to read your websites you should write it in a language understod by people.

The numbers is only really usable if we use the velocity and weight to do some math on the** impact** energy… but since we don’t have impact speed we cant do that. So the numbers are not really that usefull for anything. And even if we stick to the measured velocity converting that to energy is rather hard when we have the weight as “between 3/4 to 1 ounce.” using the low number would give a rather different result than the high number.

And not one single of the bows are of the pull longbows where historical… so again the numbers are not usefull for anything else, other than giving us the difference between a lot of low powered bows with some ill defined arrows.

#253

As I said: “Enthusiast site”. Maybe their target viewers are people from their shooting circle… can’t point fingers here. Data is data… we convert if needed, the same way English is not the first (nor even second) language for lot of people posting in international forums. We just do our best to comunicate… a lot of people don’t give a “brick” about that but it’s not because this that their info loose value.

About the table: As I said, it’s not a scientific or even technical stuff… it’s just reference. Diverse sorces are giving us very close results.

About the info on the table on the site: They explain their method, describle the arrow used in details and the picture shows that speed check is in the distance that an arrow fly faster. This is a reference. Impact speed is harder to calculate… we need to drawn a ballistic curve and insert the arrow in a giving point of it, calculate the enegy and than we will know what happens.

But we are also talking about a videogame archery system… will the game use a IL-2 Sturmovik 1946-like ballistic/damage system or use an adaptation of pen & paper for damage and ballistic only for arrow flying pattern? If uses the second then it’s irrelevant all this topic. Not that the game couldn’t be very good and fun with it… but then we stop talking about ballistics and real data to start to discuss between GURPS and Falkenstein… either way I will like it lol

#254

Sorry if this has been discussed in the thread - it’s massive - or somewhere else already, but what I’d really like to know is whether NPCs when shooting will behave like the player would in that they may not always be able to see exactly where they’re shooting.

What I mean by that is if you were shooting at an enemy through a hedge, or into thick shrubbery or something, you probably wouldn’t be able to hit that enemy since of course you can’t see him. But in every game I’ve played so far, including the Deliverance alpha from what I can tell, If an NPC shoots at you through something they wouldn’t be able to see through they’re pretty much as accurate as they are when shooting normally, as though they can see through the hedge/bush/whatever else. I really hope that NPCs end up having realistic line-of-sight like players do. Would make the game much more fun, interesting and realistic.

4 Likes
#255

I hope for realistic line-of-sight for NPCS too!
And I believe… I BELIEVE!

…*starts singing *
“yee who are warriors of God…”

#256

My first reaction to gaining access to a bow was that the costs look disproportionate.

The bow seemed a touch pricey for a light weight training/hunting bow, at 28.6 Groschen, but the arrows are very cheap at 0.26… a ratio of 110:1

A quick look at historical figures didn’t throw up a simple comparison of cost of bow and arrow, I did find a ‘bulk cost’ of 0.75p for Henry’s arrows for the Agincourt campaign (1/6th of a day’s wages for a labourer - equal to 24 nails).

Modern examples (although produced under vastly different conditions) have a price for “warbow” and arrows of ~£300 and £20, or 15:1. which is more nearly where I’d expect it to be… or somewhere between here and ‘lots less’ than the current ratio.

While I use lots of arrows per kill, I also find that I can recover them easily enough and so don’t have any on going cost associated with running a bow. (Perhaps some could be ‘broken’ and recoverable as an item with some resale/repair value, but not usable, nor as valuable as an intact arrow).

Thoughts from those with more experience in this area?

2 Likes
#257

I´ve paid 700€ for my yew longbow (not a warbow) and an arrow costs me around 5€
Not sure though how the ratio was in the medieval times.

#258

So… now that the game has been out for a while: What do you think of the archery? Does it seem realistic to you? I’m not finding it that way… I can’t think of anyone whose hands wobble so much while holding a bow.

#259

I think the archery is quite good! It has been my favorite interpretation in video games so far. Archery would be a very hard thing to portray in video games because firing a bow is a lot about “feel”, and you can’t feel in a video game. So even though it may not be as involved or intricate as the melee combat, I feel it’s as close as it can get. As far as the bow swaying a lot while drawn, there needs to be progression since it is an RPG, so as Henry gets better at the bow the sway will lessen and foring the bow will be much easier. Over all I’m quite happy with it!

#260

Yeah, a lot of “RPGs” have mechanics unplayable and unfun in the early stages, and progress into something that actually works with time. That’s how the pick-pocketing worked… though I hope I don’t need to get to level 12 before archery works.

In reality, you can learn to shoot a bow pretty well in a few hours, but it will take ingame weeks until Henry learns how to shoot straight. I guess I’m roleplaying some kind of physical or mental handicap. There are cheats to accelerate the artificial padding, thankfully.

You should try out the Portal VR game. It has an archery minigame. There’s also a couple of other VR games that got much of the feeling of archery.

#261

Yes I agree as well. When I picked up a bow I had it down better than Henry withing the first 30 minutes hahaha so I totally get that. It also doesn’t seem to raise your archery skill when firing at targets. Do you need to shoot living things to raise it or is that just me? Then again, if you could just sit there and shoot a target for hours and improve your skill it would be broken really quickly haha so never mind.

I wish I could play some of the VR stuff out there! I just can’t throw down the money for it haha but one day!

1 Like
#262

Yes, you have to shoot bandits and rabbits and stuff. When, in reality, even drawing an arrow and loosing it, hitting nothing, would be practice for a beginner. But if a player is willing to spend an hour at target practice (roleplaying, plus genuine practice), you ought to reward them with XP. That’s not breaking the game, that is literally playing the game, roleplaying.

What level of archery are you at?

#263

Yeah that is true. I did spend like 30 minutes practicing in game before I realized it wasn’t giving me anything haha it was nice getting it worked out a little I guess but in game I got nothing for it haha I haven’t been able to play nearly as much as I have wanted. I literally just got to the point where you are challenged to an archery competition to get your first bow. So I haven’t even shot a living thing yet haha

How about you? What’s your level?

#264

I like archery irl too and must say it’s significantly easier than in this game, but while it may be hard I do find the portrayal quite realistic.

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