The †roll Cave ®™

Off-topic
#3860

so you think the jews could of beat the entire german army ?

look at warsaw how did that go ?

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:3859, topic:21032”]
I’m living proof your argument is horse shit. I in America. and in 1776 a bunch of farmers used guns to overthrow the British.
[/quote] a well orgainsed force with the backing of two leading powers . yes . and a force which had a majority backing from the population .

which proves my point perfectly . a government is only powerful when the people back it .
a dictaor can only gain power through the support of the people . simple fact .

me or you couldnt suddenly become dictators could we ? we would require backing from millions .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:3859, topic:21032”]
Well you better take it up with these guys because im sure they would disagree with you.
[/quote] well what a great help they were to the 6 million dead .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:3859, topic:21032”]
i bet your article is the same type of liberal bullshit that would go on about how we failed in Vietnam.
[/quote] well you sorta did . you know your objective to stop the communist taking power …they sort of took power … objective failed …

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:3859, topic:21032”]
I’m also quite shocked that you’re saying this when you claimed how unsuccessful you were in Afghanistan against he Taliban.
[/quote] interesting point but you fail to include my reasoning why .

1st the people mostly support the taliban in the rural area’s again 1 point to people power .
2nd rules of engagement meant we simply couldnt beat them .

if the governments in isaf all agreed to just fuck it . get in destroy the taliban and get out .
the mission would be over in about a year . but the PR would be horrendous for ISAF . because the destruction would be huge . the number of dead civilians would be huge .

ive explained many times how the taliban simply out smart the rules every time . we send in an apache they send women out . appache see’s the women , thats it mission off they cant engage .
in the ideal world of war that simply wouldnt matter . she would be an acceptable loss .

how do you think the SS would of acted ? damn right butcher the lot

#3861

I haven’t read the article but what I know is that Czech resistance had to focus a lot of its forces on getting guns instead of focusing on damaging Germans directly. The resistance units had to refuse accepting people who didn’t come armed because they simply had no use for someone with all the will but no firepower.

As regards effectiveness - for example in rather small area of Beskid Mountains, a group of some 200 partisans held up over 13.000 German soldiers for many months. These are 13.000 soldiers that could be otherwise deployed on the frontline, and the ratio was about the same all over the country. Even if we completely disregard the actual damage to the Germans and the intelligence gathered, the sheer size of forces needed to deal with a rather small unit shows its huge effectiveness.

From my experience, vast majority of Germans do accept that their parents and grandparents are responsible for the 60+ million dead in Europe.

Nonetheless they do feel deeply inside as Übermensch, even if they would never admit it to themselves, not to mention to anyone else.

Germany does criminalize hate speech. And also state symbols are protected there (if I am correct I might be prosecuted for publicly shitting on a Czech flag in Germany while I would be covered by freedom of expression in my own country).

It is not free in a way that you and I imagine, but not because of laws and government but because of the nature of Germans. They tend to be little Nazis inside as regards following every single law and rule.

I mean, look at this:


As the comment puts it:

This is so German: if you don’t pick up your phone, you get fined 10 bucks. Don’t train enough? 20 bucks. Don’t show up for BBQ?? 50 bucks motherfucker.

Didn’t think bikers could be bureaucrats? Germany yo.

1 Like
#3862

my other prime example to you is syria . how free are they ? why hasnt it worked ? because most Syrians support Assad so he stays strong .

iraq - miltary crumbling at the face of ISIS why ? most iraqi’s dont like the new government and have no desire to fight for it . resulting in its power crumbling .

are you seeing what im saying yet ? your gun is worthless on its own . as long as the dictator has support he will have more guns than you .

so my point again as long as a leader has support he has the power simple .

so to answer your main question . about what power i would have to stop a evil government in the UK ?
quite easy the people would turn on it meaning the army would turn on the government . the government would be over thrown .

problem with your idea of miltia’s is what happens when one gets the taste of power like in libya , like in syria , somlia , sudan just about every other fucking shit whole .

#3863

in that situations armed uprising are very useful . but this would be missing my point entirely and the point of the article .

lets say WW2 never happened but the prosecution of jews did and all that stayed the same .

the german army , the german people all support hitler . the jews still have guns .
what chance in hell would the jews have of over throwing hitler with all the guns they could possibly ask for within reason ?

can we collective agree here the jews wouldnt have a hope in hell of defeating the german army . air force and navy ?
please note here before you go screaming " guns freedom rarrrr! "
it took the allies 6 years to fully defeat hitler . with millions upon millions of men .

there were but 500,000 jews many of them women of children in germany in 1933 .

#3864

ill say it again .

one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter

#3865

actually it was directly quoting the historical events one by one disproving the arguments put forward by people such as your self

#3866

Common Syrians could not own firearms. Assad actually forbid people in 2001 from privately owning firearms. Assad killed 10.000 unarmed people before the resistance started successfully getting guns from abroad. Had the people been armed from the start the outcome may have been very different very fast.

It stands also now - in the territories under Assads control civilians remain disarmed. So notwithstanding whether someone stands behind him or not they need to either “stay calm and carry on” or leave to part of country under control of opposition where are actual possibilities - and guns - to fight Assad exist.

Because the US&UK&Polish alliance had the brilliant idea of dismantling the entire governmental system of Iraq including its police and army. Those were the last professionals in armed forces of Iraq that actually knew what to do and cared enough. And quite clearly these people today overwhelmingly stand against the current army.

From what I’ve read a typical Iraqi army soldier today joined army because it was the only job available. He got next to no training, got a gun and was told to be stationed somewhere. He did not go to army because he believed in anything, or because he was willing to fight for anyone. (Needless to say that if 30 suicide bombers detonate 30 trucks completely filled with explosives within one hour in the same city morale of any army would be quite shattered).

OK, let’s play your scenario. Jews have guns. NSDAP never even thinks of starting Cristal Nacht because Jews would shoot back. The Jew hating in Germany was very much dependent on the fact that Jews had no means of self defense.

Try going to a Jewish quarter in Prague and smacking random Jews. I bet you you will be looking into a barrel of a gun before you say “Cristal Nacht”.

Do that in Paris. I bet you you can then sit in the nearest cafe, order and eat croissant and drink coffee before the first unarmed police officer comes and asks you why you actually jumped on the poor man’s head and crushed his scull.

1 Like
#3867

well no because they are all very well armed now and still struggling . why ? mostly because people get greedy and end becoming the very evil they’re fighting .

[quote=“snejdarek, post:3866, topic:21032”]
Because the US&UK&Polish alliance had the brilliant idea of dismantling the entire governmental system of Iraq including its police and army. Those were the last professionals in armed forces of Iraq that actually knew what to do and cared enough. And quite clearly these people today overwhelmingly stand against the current army.

From what I’ve read a typical Iraqi army soldier today joined army because it was the only job available. He got next to no training, got a gun and was told to be stationed somewhere. He did not go to army because he believed in anything, or because he was willing to fight for anyone. (Needless to say that if 30 suicide bombers detonate 30 trucks completely filled with explosives within one hour in the same city morale of any army would be quite shattered).
[/quote] most battles the iraq’s hugely out number the ISIS fighters , are better equipped and better trained .

but as you say the iraqi’s dont have a will to fight

[quote=“snejdarek, post:3866, topic:21032”]
OK, let’s play your scenario. Jews have guns. NSDAP never even thinks of starting Cristal Nacht because Jews would shoot back. The Jew hating in Germany was very much dependent on the fact that Jews had no means of self defense.

Try going to a Jewish quarter in Prague and smacking random Jews. I bet you you will be looking into a barrel of a gun before you say “Cristal Nacht”.
[/quote] i disagree the germans would also shoot back though wouldnt they .

this is what you seem to always over look every time in every gun related debate .

in the situation you seem to role every time . there is a jew with a gun and 10 people unarmed threatning him . of course the jew would win most times as the 10 germans wouldnt be stupid enough to attack .

but what happens when there is one armed jew and 10 armed germans . what then ? but in fact the ratio is much higher than that isnt it

#3868

what happens if im part of a group of men who all also have guns ? or is the attacker unarmed and about 12 like in the rest of your situations :slight_smile:

#3869

The only people that are armed are out of the government controlled territories. That leads to the fact that this is not the usual type of civil uprising all across the area, but rather position warfare between two factions withing the same country, where neither faction can do much damage deep within the other faction’s territory.

I think you should spend a couple of hours watching youtube videos of typical Iraqi army training and typical ISIS training.

The thing is that the type of people that commit violent acts is a very small, although very vocal, minority. Even in situation where majority of people hated jews, they would not support their killing. Had the Jews been armed from the beginning the Nazis would either have to escalate things all the way to shootouts, where they would quite possibly lose public support, or had to tone down.

There is a reason why Jews were being officially only moved to new areas to the East instead of publicly saying that they are being all murdered.

1 Like
#3870

BUMP :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

#3871

yes indeed but in any uprising not all the population is going to be on one side and these sort of front lines become about . for example using the UK .

if there was a civil war between the conservative supporters and labour supported it would be south v north and neither side would find much support in the opposite side of the country . apart from london :slight_smile:

[quote=“snejdarek, post:3869, topic:21032”]
I think you should spend a couple of hours watching youtube videos of typical Iraqi army training and typical ISIS training.
[/quote] both is shit to be honest the ISIS looks good but really its just for show and would offer no real practical meaning in a battle .

[quote=“snejdarek, post:3869, topic:21032”]
The thing is that the type of people that commit violent acts is a very small, although very vocal, minority. Even in situation where majority of people hated jews, they would not support their killing. Had the Jews been armed from the beginning the Nazis would either have to escalate things all the way to shootouts, where they would quite possibly lose public support, or had to tone down.
[/quote] but you know as well as i do hitlers propaganda machine would of twisted it to a jewish attack on germany and everyone would rally behind hitler .

#3872

for a second i got excited and thought you made us visable to the outside world again :slight_smile: do it :slight_smile:

#3873

my point in all of this is that .

your gun is useless unless you have the support of the majority of the population .

who ever holds the popular support is going to win . thats simple logic .
and one hitler found out in the munich putsch and wrote about in mein campf

#3874

I don’t want to abuse the general public with our dribble.

You could always link to it in any (or all) of your posts people click it its their choice.

#3875

they deserve it ! :slight_smile:

#3876

Are we still talking Prague? Because from what I’ve heard from one former private guard there is no more armed civilian place (i.e. not counting government guns) in Europe, and quite possibly in the world, than the Prague Jewish quarter.

Note that this is in the least anti-semitic country in Europe.

Then it would have become an existential fight for Jews by 1936 and most would have fled the country - as well as other occupied territories - thus avoiding majority of gas chamber deaths.

Popular support is worth nothing if you don’t have firepower behind it. I live in a country that was occupied 1620-1918, 1938-1945, 1948-1989, so please don’t tell me how guns are not important for freedom.

1 Like
#3877

Then go forth and Hyperlink the doctrine of the troll people. :stuck_out_tongue:

We could start our own religion and sell timemasheens.

#3878

i thought you would never ask :slight_smile:

#3879

well most of the deaths would of been avoided in my situation anyway :slight_smile:
so you would have thousands of jews dead and nothing achieved . hitler would of achieved his goal of riding germany of jews .

[quote=“snejdarek, post:3876, topic:21032”]
Popular support is worth nothing if you don’t have firepower behind it.
[/quote] with popular support comes fire power though . the army is made up of people . enough of the army turn and guns become very available .
plenty of weapons to go around on miltary bases .

[quote=“snejdarek, post:3876, topic:21032”]
1620-1918, 1938-1945, 1948-1989, so please don’t tell me how guns are not important for freedom.
[/quote] and good for you . so the guns have really helped you keep your freedom ? and take it away on at least 3 occasions you put there.
a gun by its self may offer a symbol of freedom to you personally but its useless in reality as the man with popular support will always have more guns

© 2015 Warhorse Studios www.warhorsestudios.cz