#10235

Well they didn’t shoot it down, they clearly made the decision not to, because they didn’t see it as a threat. Iran wouldn’t need a drone to track the fleets movement, i guarantee you they have long radar easily capable of doing that.

They were either doing this to try and be defiant, or they’re completely making it up which I’m leaning towards, since they’ve done that multiple times in the past.

#10236

Wow three days since anyones posted, that must be a record.
@snejdarek where have you been the past 9 days?

#10237

Damn you, I thought there will be a period of peace and love :cherry_blossom:

1 Like
#10238

Not if i can help it. :smiling_imp:

1 Like
#10239

so our police have been teaching yours how to shoot less people …

#10240

Article loses credibility as soon as i see the word “unarmed”. The idea that an unarmed full grown fucking man cannot be a threat to someone is ludicrous. More people are killed by fists every year in the U.S than rifles.

Have U.S and U.K police switch for a year, and good chunk of the U.K police will be dead, due to them thinking they can solve the worlds problems with a taser. I’ll use the Michel Brown case for an example, officer Daren Wilson put 6 fucking rounds into brown, before he was forced to go for a head shot. There is no way in hell a taser is going to stop someone like that, or speaking to them in a soothing voice.

Now i’ll wait for you to link a video showing 7-8 London police officers tackling some drunk dude, and saying how professional they are. Which brings me to another issue, majority of the times when you see American police shooting someone, they are alone, they don’t have the luxury of a mob of fellow officers to swarm the person.

Police here generally have less than 3 seconds to use deadly force or not, they have to choose their life or the attacks life. And i don’t blame them for choosing their own life. Another thing with that “unarmed” thing. A lot of those people were trying to get the officers gun.

@snejdarek

#10241

Snow flake 5 hours ago
> This is a completely ridiculous training scenario. Crime is completely different in the US and the odds of a British police officer coming face to face with a hand gun are significantly smaller - hence, he/she has a completely different attitude going into a confrontation. I get the idea of using non-lethal force but I doubt that the gun wielding criminals in America will stop wielding guns just because the police are talking to them nicer.

> Bottom line - if you don’t commit a crime (especially a violent one) then you have no need to fear. If you behave in a way which gives a police officer reason to think that you may do him (or any one else) harm, then you have to run the risk of being shot. Don’t like it, then don’t break the law or threaten a Police officer pointing a gun at you! It’s not exactly a difficult concept. Contrary to what do-gooders think, you can do a lot of damage with a rock, or any form of projectile for that matter. A police officer has the right to go home to his family at night.

Glad to see one of your country men gets it. I’m going to expand on his point, 1,446 officers have been killed in the line of duty the past 10 years in the U.S. In the U.K i was not able to find exact numbers but a rough estimate would put the number of officers killed at around 15.

I mean, is it really that hard to understand why cops here might be a little more cautious on the job? Let’s also through in the media who paints all cops as murderers and groups like black lives matter who actively encourage people to go out and shoot police officers.

Now, I’m not saying U.S cops don’t shoot people in cold blood, because there are occasions where they do. How ever, the vast majority of police killing citizens are justified, and the officer had to choose his life or theirs.

@snejdarek

#10242

there is no need to shoot and kill a man with nothing more than his fists unless its an very extreme situation .

the point of the exchange of training between our nations police forces , isnt to have unarmed police officers in the US its to demonstrate that with correct training the need to draw a lethal weapon is reduced this reducing the amount of criminals being killed .

if someone comes at you with a gun and you are armed then its perfectly reasonable to draw your weapon . but if an individual is fighting with hands or shouting or running away , there really is not a need to escalate the situation to where you have drawn a lethal weapon .

lethal force should always be a last resort .

this part being of particular relevance to my point . there is no need to right away draw a lethal weapon over a man with a rock can you talk him down ?. can you CS him ? can you taser him ? can you tackle him ? all these should be options and the officer should be trained to try and deal with the suspect using these tactics up until the point where he feels he is in mortal danger and lethal force is his only option

As the two sets of police officers met, Mr Wexler described how if confronted by a suspect holding a rock an American officer would pull out his gun.

“You’re going to kill someone for throwing a rock. That’s what you’re gonna do,” said Mr Wexler.

“How would society over here think about you shooting someone with a rock? They would not accept it.”

#10243

What do you mean by extreme situation? If a man has full on decked an officer in the face and tries again, i would not blame the officer for shooting him. You can easily be knocked unconscious with 1 good punch, and after that the officer is at the complete mercy of the criminal who now has access to his fire arm.

When did i mention disarming police in the U.S?

Again to compare the environments that U.S and U.K police operate is utterly absurd. Being a cop in the U.S is far more dangerous, so its understandable why they go for their pistols first when apprehending someone.

What happens if you try to talk them down and they pull a gun or knife on you? What happens if you have your taser and they pull a gun or a knife? That’s a sure way to get yourself killed. Your idiotic notion that an armed man is not a threat, is a very dangerous one and it’s the reason U.S cops are painted in a such a bad light. You can quite easily kill someone with your fists, as i said earlier more people are killed with fists each year, than rifles.

As for running away, i agree you should not shoot someone in the back, unless he is armed, and has discharged his weapon, or killed someone.

What if you’re talking him down and he throws the rock at your head, and you’re incapacitated? Then you’re completely at their mercy. If he has a rock and you have your gun trained him, and he tries to make a move then that is a clear indication he is very dangerous.

Another thing, you’re acting like the officer has all day to think about this. They generally have a few seconds to decide weather or not to bring the attacker down with their fire arm or not. They are forced to choose between their life or the criminals.

Also people who try to reach for the officers gun and are shot, make it under the “unarmed” category. A thing you normally see when a cop has to shoot someone is he’s alone. That is the real problem here, if there was multiple officers then their chance of taking the criminal down without lethal force increases ten fold.

#10244

an extreme situation would be that , the officer pinned and being beaten .

if an unarmed man runs at an officer there is no need to unload 6 rounds into the bloke . taser ? CS ? baton ?

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:10243, topic:21032”]
When did i mention disarming police in the U.S?
[/quote] i didnt say you did i was explaining a point .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:10243, topic:21032”]
Again to compare the environments that U.S and U.K police operate is utterly absurd. Being a cop in the U.S is far more dangerous, so its understandable why they go for their pistols first when apprehending someone.
[/quote] there is one thing being prepared to use lethal force and deploying it . if someone points a gun at me they better have a good fucking reason to . and in my books a fist fight is no reason to.

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:10243, topic:21032”]
What happens if you try to talk them down and they pull a gun or knife on you? What happens if you have your taser and they pull a gun or a knife? That’s a sure way to get yourself killed. Your idiotic notion that an armed man is not a threat, is a very dangerous one and it’s the reason U.S cops are painted in a such a bad light. You can quite easily kill someone with your fists, as i said earlier more people are killed with fists each year, than rifles.
[/quote] again you have completely missed the point . if an individual pulls a gun or a knife THEY have ESCALATED that situation and the officer should now escalate it further and deploy his firearm .

again this video being a perfect example

plenty of officers with guns there , 0 were drawn . distance was maintained and a single officer dealt with the individual .
US police would likely have all pulled sidearms and possibly shot him .

had he then run at the police they would be at a safe distance to pull out lethal force and put him down . with guns the only answer is guns in my opinion but with a knife there is plenty of room for other options to be used .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:10243, topic:21032”]
unless he is armed, and has discharged his weapon, or killed someone.
[/quote] still no need for it , i believe in the court of law .
if he is running a firing behind him by all means shoot him , but if he has fired a shot turned and now running . can he be tasered ? can he be shot in the legs ? can he be baton gunned ?

if he has committed murder thats the courts job to lock him up for that .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:10243, topic:21032”]
What if you’re talking him down and he throws the rock at your head, and you’re incapacitated?
[/quote] you keep distance so that if he did you would simply be able to move out of the way .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:10243, topic:21032”]
If he has a rock and you have your gun trained him, and he tries to make a move then that is a clear indication he is very dangerous.
[/quote] so that justifies killing him ?

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:10243, topic:21032”]
Another thing, you’re acting like the officer has all day to think about this. They generally have a few seconds to decide weather or not to bring the attacker down with their fire arm or not. They are forced to choose between their life or the criminals.
[/quote] when the attacker charges you’re correct . but if he is not charging there is no need to draw a weapon . the whole point of the 21 feet rule is to give you enough time to draw and fire . until they close that gap there is no need to draw that last resort weapon .

if it takes 4 hours to talk him down then so be it .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:10243, topic:21032”]
Also people who try to reach for the officers gun and are shot, make it under the “unarmed” category. A thing you normally see when a cop has to shoot someone is he’s alone. That is the real problem here, if there was multiple officers then their chance of taking the criminal down without lethal force increases ten fold.
[/quote] again can he be fought off using non-lethal force , distance should be maintained weapon should be secure .

there is no way an person should be able to pull an officers side-arm out without a struggle it should be secured

like so

this is the taser UK police use .

a perfect example of what the US police should be doing more of

#10245

No it’s not, they’re not super hero’s, if a cop was punched once he could be knocked out same as someone else.

Tazers which have been known to fail on multiple occasions? Since you said 6 rounds I’m guessing you’re referring to the Brown case. Well he had very little time to discharge his weapon, so drawing his tazer was completely out of the question. Not to mention Brown had punched him in the face twice, and reached for his gun. Wilson said he couldn’t take another punch like that, before he was knocked out.

No i did not, please find where i said this.

If a cop in the U.S goes into a heavy crime area, there is a very large chance he could have a gun pulled on him by a gang member. Pulling your tazer out in a situation like that would end up with you having several holes in your chest.

Haha, i knew you would post one of these videos. It’s irrelevant to our discussion, when cops use deadly force in the U.S they are alone 90% the time, not backed up by 8 other officers two of them being on fucking horses. And if those tazers were to fail he could have cut one of the officers throat with ease.

No they would not have, again cops rarely use lethal force when in groups, 90% of the time they are alone.

None of those officers are at a safe distance to pull their fire arms. They look to be about a distance of 10 feet at the most.

So you’re going to let someone who just fired at you, or killed someone, run down the street in the hopes he decides not to kill anyone else? If you wanna gamble with everyones lives in the vicinity then be my guest.

If someone sees that you have a gun trained on them, and they rush you regardless with a rock, which by the way is completely fucking lethal. Then yes i say take them down, because they are planning on killing you.

Again, you’re acting like this is all planned out, and everything goes perfectly. What if he inches towards you or distracts you and you don’t have time to pull your gun? You’re dead or best case hospitalized for months.

Jesus Christ, have you ever even been in a fist fight? You have this romanticized movie vision of some expertly performed take down moves. 90% of the time it ends up with you grappling on the ground trying beat the other person senseless. Anything can happen during a fight, one lucky blow could fucking kill you, or knock you out which would leave you at the other persons mercy.

Except IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. There are literally countless cases of people going for the officers gun, when IT WAS HOLSTERED, and many where they have incapacitated the officer, then grabbed their fire arm and fucking killed them in cold blood.

Brown was able to get a hold of Wilson’s guns, after punching him in the face, luckily for Wilson he was able to retain it, but only after it was discharged and he received[quote=“TheDivineInfidel, post:10244, topic:21032”]
this is the taser UK police use .

a perfect example of what the US police should be doing more of
[/quote] another fist to the face.

Ah mace, which is useless on people who are shit faced, or high off their ass. And tazers, i believe @snejdarek already linked multiple videos of them failing.

Bottom line is tazers, or mace are a gamble, there is a chance they can work and a chance they will fail, and you will lose the fight. Non lethal weapons are not 100% effective, period.

#10246

Just found a little stat.

From 1994-2002, 54 officers were overpowered and shot with their OWN weapons. This number does not include the number of people who attempted to take the officers fire arm, another thing it does not include, is that some of these case the person after murdering the officer with their own gun, went on to kill several other people.

#10247

likely down to poor admin from the officers . Again thats down to training .

#10248

and i just linked you multiple links of them working …nothing in life is 100% . but the argument of "tasers dont work …not that i tried i just blew his brains out " is a pretty poor one .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:10245, topic:21032”]
No it’s not, they’re not super hero’s, if a cop was punched once he could be knocked out same as someone else.
[/quote] again , the officer keeps distance at all times in a threatening situation giving him them valuable seconds to react . the officer should also be trained in some degree of hand to hand combat . of course he can lose .

we will never get zero remember the idea is to REDUCE . if a gun needs to be drawn an officer should have no worries about drawing it but with better training the officer can become more confident dealing with a situation without drawing it .

our officers dont have the issues you mention with knifemen and unarmed attackers .

we dont have the gun issue to your extent no but thats not what this training exchange was looking to address .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:10245, topic:21032”]
Tazers which have been known to fail on multiple occasions? Since you said 6 rounds I’m guessing you’re referring to the Brown case.
[/quote] i wasnt referring to any case i pulled the number six out of thin air .

goes to show how much you actually read people replies :smile: :smile: :smile:

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:10245, topic:21032”]
Tazers which have been known to fail on multiple occasions?
[/quote] tasers which have been known to work on a lot more cases .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:10245, topic:21032”]
If a cop in the U.S goes into a heavy crime area, there is a very large chance he could have a gun pulled on him by a gang member. Pulling your tazer out in a situation like that would end up with you having several holes in your chest.
[/quote] which is why in that situation you dont pull a taser . when have i ever said pull a taser on a gunmen ?

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:10245, topic:21032”]
And if those tazers were to fail he could have cut one of the officers throat with ease.
[/quote] if he had gone for the officer he would have been shot . they tasered him and he fell they are the facts .

on his own against two men

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:10245, topic:21032”]
No they would not have, again cops rarely use lethal force when in groups, 90% of the time they are alone.
[/quote] then maybe you should be thinking about having all officers work in pairs .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:10245, topic:21032”]
None of those officers are at a safe distance to pull their fire arms. They look to be about a distance of 10 feet at the most.
[/quote] multiple officers behind the camera also they dont close the gap until he was being tasered and then a second officer tasered him as well . they close the gap at THEIR choosing .

it worked did it not ?

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:10245, topic:21032”]
So you’re going to let someone who just fired at you, or killed someone, run down the street in the hopes he decides not to kill anyone else? If you wanna gamble with everyones lives in the vicinity then be my guest.
[/quote] as a police officer my job is to arrest the individual and put him before a court of law . first a foremost . if his back is turned he is not a threat to me . shoot him in the legs . baton gun , taser tackle , hit him with a car .

plenty of options other than unloading into him .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:10245, topic:21032”]
If someone sees that you have a gun trained on them, and they rush you regardless with a rock, which by the way is completely fucking lethal. Then yes i say take them down, because they are planning on killing you.
[/quote] shoot him in the legs , attempt to taser him before he charges you . talk him down BEFORE he charges you . the idea is you provent the situation of him charging you in the first place .

your entire view to everyone of these situation is to job to the worst possible situation . where as the british response is to start calm , as the criminal escalates the officer escalates .

keep distance and talk to them , can they be talked down ?
he doesnt obey ? become more aggressive and deploy a non-lethal weapon .
doesnt response ? fire the non-lethal weapon .
arrest him/her

works here perfectly fine why not in the US ?
dont go there about guns we are not discussion the situation of a gunman .

this is down to training , if he edges closer you edge back , you maintain that distance . you are a professional you dont get distracted , you would also have back up on route if you was alone and you would have priority of getting that back up .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:10245, topic:21032”]
Jesus Christ, have you ever even been in a fist fight? You have this romanticized movie vision of some expertly performed take down moves. 90% of the time it ends up with you grappling on the ground trying beat the other person senseless. Anything can happen during a fight, one lucky blow could fucking kill you, or knock you out which would leave you at the other persons mercy.
[/quote] the officers gun should be secure , you talk as if its a simply pull out of the fucking holster . the holster an patrol officer carries is designed to prevent that from happening easily if worn and secured correctly .

yes of course worst case situation he gets over powered and shot . again this is about REDUCING the loss of life . the most likely course of action is the officer is able to restrain the individual . but again distance should be maintained that you wouldn’t be in a position to just lounge for the gun .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:10245, topic:21032”]
Ah mace, which is useless on people who are shit faced, or high off their ass
[/quote] i beg to differ ive seen plenty of people peper sprayed on a friday night , normally ends with them sitting on a curb crying as the officer tells him not to rub his eyes .
but again the point of peper spray is not to stop a knifeman in his tracks its meant to incapacitate the attacker and make him easier to detain BEFORE he begins any sort of attack on the officer .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:10245, topic:21032”]
Non lethal weapons are not 100% effective, period.
[/quote] neither is lethal weapons .

you can shoot an individual multiple times and they close the gap and stab you if you dont maintain safe distance

#10249

Only the dead can know peace from the Troll Cave.

1 Like
#10250

NO amount of training, is going to prevent a elbow, or fist from smashing you in the face and incapacitating you. It could easily happen to the best officer.

You linked what three videos? I can pull up far more of them failing.

Again even if you are trained in hand to hand combat, you can still lose. One wild punch could leave you at the mercy of your attacker. Even if the officer keeps his distance there is a chance something can go wrong. Like i said a lot of the times when cops have to shoot someone here it is when they’re grappling.

When ever i see your police dealing with knife men, there’s like 40 fucking officers. A big problem here is the officer is usually alone when he has to use deadly force. Being a cop in the U.K is now near as dangerous as being a cop in the U.S, the numbers speak for themselves.

Haha, you chastise me for not reading read your post, then you don’t even bother to read mine. I said the gang member could have a gun. Then while the cop has his taser drawn, the thug could pull out a handgun and put a few holes into the officer before he would have time to draw his firearm.

By who? I didn’t see any officers with their weapons drawn. And since they were standing in a circle facing each other, they just as likely could have hit one anther or the crowd of civilians behind them.

Horrible example, the men don’t even try to fucking attack him. If they both had rushed him at once, and started beating on him. That officer would have been in serious trouble. He dealt with them one at a time.

Yes i agree.[quote=“TheDivineInfidel, post:10248, topic:21032”]
it worked did it not ?
[/quote]

Again, had the taser failed, he could have seriously wounded, or killed one of the officers.

And what if he ends up killing other people, because you let him get away? If a man has killed someone, is armed and running and could potentially kill someone else, then you should put them down by any means necessary.

Again anything can go wrong in this kind of situation. If your police are talking him down, he could easily rush one of them before they had time to pull their non lethal weapon out…

How fucking dense are you? It is fucking secure, but that doesn’t mean jack shit when the officer is knocked out. Not to mention they can still get it unstrapped during a fight with the officer.

Are any of those people charging with knife, and pumped full of adrenaline? We already had this conversation, the only way to stop a charging attack is to hit him in the neck or above.

And they will most likely die afterwards, unlikely at taser which has no damaging effects on someone.

#10251

training does descrease the chnaces of that happening , because you are trained to keep at a distance from a hostile indivudal so that he cannont just spring such an attack on you without you have plenty of time to react .

you would be correct in the sense it does not stop you from coming under a surprise attack but again an experienced officer can normally read someones body language and guess how a situation is going to unfold .

if someone seemed agitated you keep your distance and dominate control of the situation .

but again there is no need to kill someone over a punch , plenty of non-lethal ways of dealing with them .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:10250, topic:21032”]
You linked what three videos? I can pull up far more of them failing.
[/quote] im sure i can link far more of it working i apologise i didnt link you the entire internet .

if any of your argument had any substance british police would be getting elbowed and murdered every day of the week .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:10250, topic:21032”]
When ever i see your police dealing with knife men, there’s like 40 fucking officers. A big problem here is the officer is usually alone when he has to use deadly force. Being a cop in the U.K is now near as dangerous as being a cop in the U.S, the numbers speak for themselves.
[/quote] thats because our police have an emergency button on their radio that if they press it alerts all units on that channel who are are trained to drop EVERYTHING unless its major and get to that officer in trouble . so when an officer is grappled he hits that button and fights with his hands and within literally seconds about 5 police car would be with him .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:10250, topic:21032”]
Haha, you chastise me for not reading read your post, then you don’t even bother to read mine. I said the gang member could have a gun. Then while the cop has his taser drawn, the thug could pull out a handgun and put a few holes into the officer before he would have time to draw his firearm.
[/quote] the officer would taser him the moment he went for his pocket thus incapacitating him .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:10250, topic:21032”]
Horrible example, the men don’t even try to fucking attack him. If they both had rushed him at once, and started beating on him. That officer would have been in serious trouble. He dealt with them one at a time.
[/quote] because his training PREVENTED them from being in the position to rush him thats the fucking point .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:10250, topic:21032”]
By who? I didn’t see any officers with their weapons drawn. And since they were standing in a circle facing each other, they just as likely could have hit one anther or the crowd of civilians behind them.
[/quote] no weapons were drawn correct . but there is plenty of officer behind you cannont see …its at the main gate of Buckingham palace . there is at the very least 3 officers with rifles just behind where the camera man is plus as you could see every officer there was armed .

they did not need to use lethal force .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:10250, topic:21032”]
Again, had the taser failed, he could have seriously wounded, or killed one of the officers.
[/quote] again it didnt did it ? no one was killed .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:10250, topic:21032”]
Again anything can go wrong in this kind of situation. If your police are talking him down, he could easily rush one of them before they had time to pull their non lethal weapon out…
[/quote] again it doesn happen though does it ? if your argument had any substance our police would be getting murdered on a daily basis .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:10250, topic:21032”]
How fucking dense are you? It is fucking secure, but that doesn’t mean jack shit when the officer is knocked out. Not to mention they can still get it unstrapped during a fight with the officer.
[/quote] i love how you go to the most ridiculous situation . yes of fucking course if an officer is knocked out on the floor he can have his gun stolen and killed .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:10250, topic:21032”]
And they will most likely die afterwards, unlikely at taser which has no damaging effects on someone.
[/quote] what good is that to the dead officer ?

a cops duty is not to kill people . lethal force is meant to be a last resort .

#10252

1 Like
#10253

Michael H Maxwell Ok if we are playing the “suffer for your ancestors” game. I demand reparations from Turkey for sacking Constantinople, and ending the greatest civilisation of the Middle Ages. I demand Italy allows British citizens a pension, after all Rome did enslave our ancestors. I demand Germany gives every man woman and child in the rest of Europe, a huge tax rebate, after all they plunged us into war twice. Hmmm how about Mongolia, they slaughtered over 100million of all our ancestors, how about they give us free oil and gas? Let me put together a proper list Matt, then we can start paying for our ancestors

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/62934264.jpg

1 Like
#10254

@thedivineinfidel @sirwarriant

I happened to come upon better resolution, full length of your favorite Czech police video.

1 Like