Maybe, but looks to me quite the same as UK’s L1A3 from the same time.
Also, the edge of the vz.58 bayonet is designed to work as a sort of compensator.
For comparison, these go with CZ 805 nowadays:
Yea the British ones were cheap shit as well 
Was there anything better in 1960s?
Ak 47 made in Russia of course. 
How does the VZ.58 stack up against the m16 model being used at the time the m16a1 i believe?
I’d place my bets on India over China honestly, China is supposed to have a huge decline in population in the next 50 years (India is supposed to surpass it in population), and then there is the issue with how unstable their government is.
India also isn’t despised by every country in the region.
Correct me if I am wrong but quite a few American soldiers preferred to pick up an AK over their own M16 in Vietnam?
Meanwhile Vietnamese all preferred to get vz.58 over AK.
Otherwise our soldiers in Afghanistan were so happy with vz.58 that they were complaining quite loud when changing to CZ 805 back in 2012/13. Mostly due to the ballistics of the 7.62 vs. 5.56.
I am now thinking whether to bring mine to 21st century or keep it stock.
Probably will remain stock and put the money into another gun.
This one is sweet as a fuck though:
http://files.gunexpert.cz/system_preview_detail_200003497-5fbe660b81/Orezana.JPG
Oh, the possibilities…
http://files.gunexpert.cz/system_preview_detail_200003498-d3232d41c6/Rada%20expert.JPG
The original m16 had terrible durability problems mainly due to the Pentagon thinking it was wise not to issue cleaning kits to soliders and telling them it was a “self cleaning gun”, and it was using very dirty ammo at the time.
The idea that they ditched their weapon for ak-47s is total myth though, it wouldn’t even make sense to do that, and I’m pretty sure a solider returning to base without his weapon would be in trouble if his superiors knew he intentionally ditched it.
I’m sure the Vz.58 is more durable than the m16a1, maybe the m16a1 is more accurate? I simply don’t know enough about the Vz I’m basing this off the m16 being more accurate than the Ak, but as you’ve pointed out they are different guns.
Vz.58 is accurate enough. I am not sure about durability, it is not on par with AK which is made to withstand a nuclear blast while being used by a group of wild monkeys, but judging from how the AR is much more complex after I field stripped it I would expect vz.58 to be more reliable - simply because there are less things that might go wrong (and I am talking about PAR MK3 which is supposed to be one of the highest quality on the market, mil spec, with the particular model that my GF has being Israeli Police issue rifle - just with semi auto).
The 5.56 has flat trajectory up to the final point when it falls sharply. The 7.62 has a curve trajectory, which makes it a bit trickier to aim properly on 300+ meters, however the projectile will fly effectively much further and soldier with a little training should hit the target the same. Czechoslovak army soldiers were trained to hit a person on 300 meters reliably and to hit “someone” withing a group of soldiers on at least 800 meters, hit a truck on 1000-1200 meters. With basic iron sights.
One of the main complaints of Czech soldiers when they changed to 5.56 was that suddenly when Taliban was shooting at them from 1000+ meters with AKs they were unable to return fire as they were used to. Another was that when Talibs where behind mud bricks wall, they were used to shoot them through with their vz.58, which again didn’t work well with the CZ 805. Suddenly they really needed a machine gunner or someone with MBR to do tasks that each and every soldier was used to do previously.
From what I read this was also one of the problems in Vietnam jungle, that the 5.56 was losing energy too fast in the leaves and branches, unlike 7.62 which got further. Which is why some soldiers often picked up AKs.
Interesting, ive read the opposite when it comes to American soliders using m16s in Iraq and Afgan ( although the m16s used in Iraq and Afgan were newer and superior to the ones used in Vietnam). I believe it was a fire arms magazine where i read this, the U.S troops were able to engage at 1000 meters while the insurgents armed with aks were generally limited to 300 meters.
Make sense that the round would lose power in the bushes, although i haven’t seen any evidence supporting U.S troops ditching their m16s for aks. The 5.56 in Vietnam apparently did more damage to the body than the 7.62 as well due to the 5.56 fragmenting, generally the bits of the bullet would come out a completely different direction that it entered.
Another disadvantage of the m16s used in Nam were the 20 round mags. I assume the Vz.58 were issued with 30 round mags?
Engagements at 1000 metres are very rare for starters .
Also chances of you actually hitting anything at that range with an assault rifle is very low . These ranges are left too heavy weapons and marksmen as well as some beautiful air power .
At that range your pretty much just throwing rounds away . Besides the taliban love to get in close and start throwing grenades . They won’t ever start an engagement at 1000 metres because they would fucking lose . They prefer to get in close where they can do some damage .
So it’s a pointless complaint in reality
It may not have been 1000 meters the point was the U.S troops were able to significantly outrange the insurgents (who were armed with aks) with their m16s. But the U.S troops might have had optics, i have no idea how common it is for a normal infantry men to have something like a holo sight or red dot.
I even read a story where a group of U.S marines armed with m16s were accused of executing insurgents in Iraq, because they were hitting them all with head shots ( i guess the insurgents would stick their heads out of cover at what they thought was a safe distance around 200-300 meters if i can remember correctly, and they ended up getting their melons burst).
The taliban are very clever in some areas . Fucking stupid in others .
I know of a gurkha unit who spotted some taliban crawling between buildings trying to get close to the British patrol base .
So the Gurkha shot one crawling between two buildings . And instead of finding another route the taliban continued trying to cross the ally way with 5 minute intervals between each man . As you can imagine not a single one made it across .
I would of thought any sane person would of watched his mates head get blown off then think "shit better find another way ". But not these thick bastards , their protected by allah
“”“Special”"" forces indeed.
How common is it for soliders to ditch their weapons for the ones their enemy was using? And are there penalties for doing this?
if by ditching you mean throwing your weapon away . Well every weapon is registered and numbered so you wouldn’t get away with it . It would be a court martial for sure . I’d suspect at the least getting kicked from the military . At the most prison time .
I’ve never we heard anything of the sort so it’s only a guess .
Is it possible that soldiers picked up enemy weapons while also keeping hold of their standard issued rifles ? Possible yes .
But doubtful
As i suspected. There was never any evidence supporting the myth anyway, and with this new information i’d say it’s more than safe to say U.S troops did not ditch their M16s for Aks.
That’s bullshit. Vz.58 is rated with 2.800 meters maximum killing range (with no possibility to aim of course) - which BTW one of the reasons why many shooting ranges don’t allow them (they don’t have this long target area an at the same time 7.62 tend to destroy barriers against overshooting). Maybe when Talibs use Pakistani garage made ammo, but not with normal modern ammo.
5.56 does make more damage. Not so much through fragmentation (that would be prohibited ammo), but due to the weight distribution which makes it wiggle after entering body, while 7.62 tends to cut through straight like knife through butter.[quote=“SirWarriant, post:1675, topic:27880”]
I assume the Vz.58 were issued with 30 round mags?
[/quote]
30 rds mags or 62 rds drums.
Apparently it was enough of a problem for many Czech soldiers to request getting vz.58 back on long range patrols.
When you are shooting at a bunch of patrol cars and soldiers around them the chances not to hit something at this range are very low. And I suppose that as a soldier you can only hope it will be the truck not yourself. Which is pretty fucked up if you can’t return fire as used to and have to only duck and leave it to machine gunner.
From what I read Czech patrols became known for firing back pointless amount of RPGs to the point they mostly weren’t engaged in the same manner as other states patrols. [quote=“TheDivineInfidel, post:1676, topic:27880”]
So it’s a pointless complaint in reality
[/quote]
Pointless or not, this was the experience of the soldiers and it was important enough for them to request being able to choose between CZ 805 and vz.58 on individual basis.
Most sources put maximum effective range of 5.56 at 800m.
Don’t know if this source is worth anything, but google finds quite a lot articles on the topic:
https://warisboring.com/u-s-commandos-had-a-love-affair-with-captured-ak-47s-87ab1e4ae2c1#.w80ibkh8r
