Why is the Protagonist so ugly?

Off-topic
#88

So… I hope I understand you right.

You say that you respect what they are trying to archieve and you backed them for it.
At the same time you want them to change what they are trying to do, because it wouldn´t sell and you want this game to sell well.
Both things for themselves are okay, but both at the same time just don´t fit together in my head. If they change what they are trying to do, wouldn´t they throw overboard for what you respect and backed them?

Or is it just my bad english and I´m overlooking something?

And I have to disagree with this sentence:

That´s a generalization and I don´t think it´s true. The first thing I flesh out in a story is the world it is told in. I know other people who optimize the main character/s first and I know people who write down and optimize the story itself first. And every of this ways work just fine.

1 Like
#89

“change the game or it’ll fail”. not the most subtle attempt at manipulation. and especially ineffective considering the risk already undertaken to make the game. if they wanted to change this into another generic casual experience, it would have happened already, and at this point, it’s too late anyway, not that it would matter.

basically, expect everything to look and be better. there’s another year of development. but do not expect drastic changes. you apparently dislike 50 percent of the game content already. you’ll likely be able to pay an herbalist to skip alchemy and crafting, and you’ll likely be able to shave henry. but those are the extent of your ability to “change” the game.

and you dislike the combat? really? hmm, think you signed up for the wrong game :wink:

5 Likes
#90

Ok so now im really curious what it is you want?

What specifically about each of theses things displease you?

We haven’t had access to the combat so we can only base our opinions off of what we see, and for the most part everyone (here in the forums, Posters on youtube, and the Steam group) has claimed to be impressed and or excited for it.

The last sentence in that quote is also a huge contradiction if you respected what they were trying to do you would understand that these archery, combat, and alchemy mechanic are unique and unlike anything else that’s been put out in an RPG and do not need to change because its apart of their vision.

4 Likes
#91

It’s not a contradiction, it’s complex. Jonischaf, you seem to believe it’s either black or white.

I and a lot of people do like hard cord mechanics, but A LOT of people don’t. They wanna pick up a game, feel like a hero and then take care of something else they’ve got going in their life.

That’s why, like I said, a lot of the problems would be solved with a Survival mode where it’s not an option in itself, but for those playing on normal they’d not be forced to take a dump in the game just in order to be authentic.

It is a generalization, like you said. And like I said I am worried today, but that worry might alleviated by tomorrow if they do in fact tweak the protagonist.

  1. Combat - By the looks of it, and if it is to be authentic (ie, unbeatable with full armour) that would in realistic terms mean that it’s impossible to win against 2-3 people or more in one battle. I mean you did say “real” right. No way any idiot would walk in to a bandit camp and kill 10 guys in reality. But I would like to do that in this game, or a built in mechanic to sneak in at night (to make it feel more real)… The battle mechanic as it is now seems way to focused on one on one combat and way difficult as it is.

  2. Archery - The way he spoke about it in the E3 presentation he said no pointer, fine… But he also said it might not actually go to the same point you are holding the bow even if it’s aimed the same way, because the character is shivering and what-not. Do you all realize how frustrating this would be if you point at the same spot and never hit? This is exactly what Morrwind got trashed for and why they changed it for Oblivion and Skyrim.

  3. Eating - I already explained this one, and if you say I’m out of line with this one, I’m telling you now you are not in touch with the mainstream gaming community.

  4. Dialogue - See this I can’t say anything about yet because they have a long time to polish the dialogues… Just learn from W1-3…

  5. Alchemy - Oh so either I spend 1h standing in front of a stove or I buy shit and lose all my money? Come on, again, this does not cater to the mainstream market.

I respect the general idea of trying to make a “close to authentic world” without magic, focused on a real life narrative. I respect the vision of having somewhat close to real experiences with weapons and so on. But there are places where I still think there is a good balance between real and good gameplay… We’ll see if they manage to balance this out well.

#92

No no, I didn´t think of it as black and white, it just sounded to me, that you wanted them to ‘trash’ (okay that might be an exaggeration, but you get the point) what made their idea and vision of the game. You see, their always will be compromises between ‘vision’ and ‘product’ and in many cases they are there for good reasons, I totally see that. But at the same time you have to ask yourself: for what reason am I doing this? Are the reasons for a change good and legit, do they any god to the thing I want to make, or are they just there to appeal a bigger audience and don´t really add to the product I am trying to make.
I try to compare it to a book, that´s a field I am much more confident with.
You can for example add a ‘comic relief character’ to almost every story without bigger problems. And most of times such a character will appeal to a bigger readership and lead to better criticism and so on, because you know… these kinds of characters are there to appeal people. But you have to ask yourself if this really is what you want for your book, even if it kinda fits to your setting and genre.
It´s a bit of a wobbly comparison but I hope you see what I mean.
But I don´t want to imply that you want the game any harm with this but indeed want it to be good and acknowledged.

EDIT: Still sounds a bit like black and white…and yeah I do believe there is a black side, some things I just couldn´t support, but I am aware, that there are many greys in between black and white :wink:

And I believe that you are underestimating the majority of gamers.
Let´s take Dark Souls, which is considered one of the most ‘hardcore’ games series on the market. Of course it is hardcore in an other way than this will be but in my opinion the comparison is legitimate.
So the souls series sounds very niche and hardcore, but DS2 alone sold 2.5 Million copies. Hardcore is pretty ‘in’ right now.

Your suggestion of a Survival Mode is a ok one, but you have to consider that this would take additional development time and ressources because it has to be balanced a lot.

And what you say about the alchemy system… I think that this is one of the elements that make the game special and unique, as well as many of the other points you mentioned. And maybe…just maybe, that is in fact what the developers want to deliver. A game that is unique.
Of course it still has to sell.
But consider this: everyone who backed this game more or less knew what was coming to them. At least they knew the fighting + archery system was hardcore, that they had to eat and sleep and that the Alchemy/Cooking system was quite different from what we are used to.
And still…they came and backed it and it was still one of the most successfull kickstarted games last year.
Of course you could argue that now almost everyone with interest in this type of game is already in, but I know lots of people with interest in this setting, genre and type of game, who aren´t in, because they have no interest in pre-ordering things which they don´t know to be good and while my acquaintances and friends are not a sufficient group to prove a point, I still think many people have the same opinion.
So maybe the game won´t appeal to many ‘mainstream gamers’ (I hate this term, it generalizes and reduces people so much…), but it is still going to sell.

But that´s just my opinion and not in any sense mandatory :slight_smile:

1 Like
#93

Guys ignore him. Either he’s a complete and total idiot who can’t even say why he doesn’t like certain parts of the game, or he’s a troll. Either way he’s not worth your time.

4 Likes
#94

Man… who does this guy think he is?!

**Lists entire game…

What a waste of space… get off this forum dude. Your kinds not welcome here.

Hmm funny that… I don’t see any backing tier associated with your user account?

Probably for the best though

2 Likes
#95

  1. No, it is quite realistic to win aggainst two or even three (if you are skilled). And if you wear an armour you could won even aggainst more. Sneaking mechanic will be there though Im not sure what you mean.
    If you want to attack 10 bandits in paddet armour and win then you choosed wrong game. Like if you buy ARMA and want to play CS:GO

  2. The archery in alpha and it works gfreat. It needs some practice but it is quite possible to learn it. This allows the bow to be lethal weapon as it was instead of what they are in many games where they are easy to hit but do just little damage (unless you are in sneak mode, hit head, oppponent isnt boss… etc.)

  3. Mainstream means they will be doing MMO for iPhones as Dan said. I guess they are rather doing game for few milions who wanted something different and nobody gives them that yet, instead of trying to compete with gigants in what they do for years. In my honest opinin, they can even change the mainstream but we’ll see.

  4. Just learn from Mafia… I have no fear there.

  5. Aggain… mainstream isn’t the Holy Grail and it is bad idea to trying to have all details mainstreamed. Also, if I remember correctly there will be “auto” button that will cook the potion for you while at alchemy lab.

Good gameplay is realy relative term and doesn’t have to clash with realism (as menay seems to reapeat). It only matter if you can make the realism attractive. Also, I have strong believe that there is strong part of gaming comunity who want game to be more realistic than mainstream is and that this part is growing.

2 Likes
#96

Guys, cmon please. I don’t like the way people start behaving here. Ok, the way @God_Is_777 has created the topic header is a bit provocative. But you should reply to a plain question as I did. Starting to bitch about him is not only imature but also unproductive.
Why is the protagonist so ugly:
a) I don’t think he is ugly (because there was other measurments of attractivity /beauty during that times)
b) I agree he is ugly
c) something else (without getting personal /aggresive in your answer)

If people want to debate and argue on a professional way they should use facts, if not they should just stop replying to the post simple that is.

Back to topic:
I think he is not ugly because he has no missing or black teeth, no deformed jaw, no scars and no signs of incest. All these things were common in medieval times. So as I stated earlier, I think the protagonist is to beautiful. Also keep in mind that he is a young son of a blacksmith, not many reasons to have outstanding characteristics from battles or wisdom crinkles till now, but maybe during the acts he will change a bit (scars, shaved, missing body parts, …)

This is my prediction… KC:D will be a failure when it comes to sales, granted the following things don’t change:

I am positive that the game will be a success because it is different to other mainstream games :wink:

4 Likes
#97

So far I got the impression he wants the game to be something different the authors are intending and tries to base his arguments on the sole concern of potential popularity of the game by imposing traditional game mechanics and clichés the authors are actually trying to avoid. … eh does this make sense? :smiley:

1 Like
#98

@God_Is_777

The thing is we know what ‘most’ people want.

Most people would also want dragons and a fantasy setting etc. This is exactly the reason why Warhorse had difficulty finding a publisher in the first place.

Most people find a more realistic approach boring and not as much fun.

More money is generated through mindless Hollywood blockbusters than more serious/realistic movies as those are what most people want to see.

I personally have no/little interest in these things (certainly in terms of cheesy movies) and they in their mediocrity and repetitive, stereotypical nature, bore me to death. “Yeah, but the special effects are great” or “So and so’s super hot,” I just don’t care. Whilst the game does have to have a reasonably broad appeal, I don’t think it’s looking for a mass market audience as that jars with the realistic approach the devs are taking.

@Gladix

As to hair; sure the more realistic the better, however this is a technical issue and not a stylistic one. We’ll be able to adjust the hairstyle/beard in-game anyway. Voice acting’s along similar lines; clearly I also want to see the best deliveries possible and a well constructed plot with good dialogue, but to me these things aren’t the same as giving the character a distinctive/interesting ‘un-ugly’ face (whilst no model, I wouldn’t go as far as to say Henry’s ugly myself). For me it’s more important that his face is realistic and believable given the setting; strength of character/personality should come through the voice acting, animations and dialogue rather than a particular unique look.

As to ‘interesting’ and ‘connecting with the character’ I guess that comes down to opinion. One man’s interesting is another’s dull and so on. That’s kind of what I meant by the tattoo thing; this drive for originality or uniqueness, to stand out or look interesting is often just conforming to the most unoriginal and uninspiring pop-culture you can find.

I remember back when WH were talking about big name actors some people were hoping to get the main characters scanned so they could recognise their favourite actors in-game (not just for expression syncing, they wanted full face replicas). To me this is exactly what I’d hate to see, it’d be a real immersion breaker. Last thing I want in a game is to meet someone and recognise not only the voice actor, but also the guy’s appearance; “Oh, hang on, it’s Sean Bean.” Doesn’t matter that he’s a good actor and plays these type of roles well, recognising the guy detracts from whoever he’s meant to be playing IMO. I know others disagree, but that’s my opinion.

Personally I don’t really care all that much about the ‘strength’ of the character in terms of how defined he/she is as a personality as I’d much rather have the options to play them as myself rather than just go through a heavily linear/scripted plot. I would take the Skyrim/Fallout trade-off in terms of freedom of player choice over a tighter game with a better told story any day, but that’s just my personal preference. I do enjoy playing characters such as Geralt, Max Payne and those from the Mafia series, but to me a blank slate is more appealing and lets me bond better with the character (i.e. become him) than a pre-defined personality does (culminating in ‘I am Henry’ as opposed to ‘I am controlling Henry’). This is also why I prefer a 100% first person camera system.

6 Likes
#99

Didn’t know good writing, voice acting, mo capture, and nimation quality are already cliches.

#100

Voice acting’s along similar lines

How can you adjust voice acting at all?

For me it’s more important that his face is realistic and believable given the setting; strength of character/personality should come through the voice acting, animations and dialogue rather than a particular unique look.

That’s the only thing I hope for.

As to ‘interesting’ and ‘connecting with the character’

That’s not opinion. As much as game design 101.

That’s kind of what I meant by the tattoo thing; this drive for originality or uniqueness, to stand out or look interesting is often just conforming to the most unoriginal and uninspiring pop-culture you can find.

Why do people always talk about hair styles, or tattoos. As if that was the only thing that matters. Not only that would be not historic, authentic but down right stupid to do. I’m talking about jaw lines, eyes, larger, smaller forehead, etc…

To me this is exactly what I’d hate to see, it’d be a real immersion breaker.

Yep stupid. It’s great if you catch someone as big as Kevin Spacey and then market the game solely on him. But that wouldn’t work here. All that matters is a good voice actor. And good mocap.

Personally I don’t really care all that much about the ‘strength’ of the character in terms of how defined he/she is as a personality as I’d much rather have the options to play them as myself rather than just go through a heavily linear/scripted plo

That works only in mute fantasy games. This however is not one. Real historical events, need scripting. And it will be done that way. It will be more like Dragon age, instead of Skyrim in my opinion.

but to me a blank slate is more appealing and lets me bond better with the character (i.e. become him) than a pre-defined personality does (culminating in ‘I am Henry’ as opposed to ‘I am controlling Henry’). This is also why I prefer a 100% first person camera system.

Works only in mute games. Not in voice acted, mo capped main protagonist whose face you will see half of the game. Hence the importance of it being somewhat interesting. If you want to be blank slate. To be you defined character. Well, though. You will be Henry.

#101

Straw man. Your comment doesnt make sense even as whatsoever

1 Like
#102

Strawman is beating the opponents argument, while actually refuting the argument that wasn’t advanced by the opponent. My comment on the other hand was full on sarcasm.

#103

That is not what I was reffering to. These are of course subjects to change as the development progresses.
This thread just started as a topic about the current look of the character and then developed into a general discussion about many key elements of the game on which God_is_777 seems to have a very different opinion than the developers vision revealed so far. And it does not make much sense as we don’t know that much about the final
It is just starting to be a pain to follow where this is going…

#104

“Didn’t know good writing, voice acting, mo capture, and nimation quality are already cliches.”

Each and every one of this is placeholder in the alpha. So… what are we talking about, again, if not the looks of the character?

#105

Better to voice our opinions on THE OFFICIAL DEVELOPER’S FORUMS. About our displeasure about the look of the main protagonist. Rather than to be quiet, after all, it’s just an alpha and we don’t know much about it.

Offcourse we don’t. He may look cool as fuck when fully voice acted and mo-captured. We don’t know, and we won’t know until they show something. But as it stends, the main protagonist, looks somewhere between weird, and dull.

#106

@TobiTobsen @McWonderBeast @DrFusselpulli
My troll threads always get taken down quickly this one has run is course don’t you think ? :wink:

2 Likes
#107

the devs have stated that it’s all work in progress, what exactly is your point? that they’re lying? you’re making an issue out of nothing. go run around the block and clear your head, you’re starting to sound like the troll who made this topic.

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