Why the bow sway is unrealistic

Gameplay
#21

From the couple of minutes I played with it (i’m going out of town so I couldn’t spend longer with it) I found the bow sway to be a little difficult to master. This isn’t a problem though because think of it in terms of strength. A beginner with no technique is not going to be able to handle the draw weight of a 90 - 130lb English Longbow.

Now from a development/balancing standpoint Warhorse isn’t going to start you in a game where you can’t even draw a bow. We can agree on that. So what can they do? They can either pursue modeling the difficulty in a different way (weapon sway) or make it so that only a lvl 30 character can use it etc. I personally find it more immersive if every weapon had a different skill cap to it as opposed to just a generic “you must be this level” threshold.

I think we need to understand that this is supposed to be an immersive RPG. I think that there SHOULD be difficulty in keeping your bow steady as it represents the development from a novice archer to a skilled archer. (This is all assuming that there will be less sway as you level ofc.) Keep in mind this is just a techinical alpha though. It’ll be a long way before they tweak this stuff.

1 Like
#22

Hi!

My idea is this:

Using a numerical based system out of 10 because it’s easier to explain,

Okay, you’re a weak sap around 3 STR, and you’re trying to draw a 120 Lb Longbow (Say… recommended 8 STR), you can equip it, fine, you try and draw, your stamina decreases as you’re pulling back, and you can only draw it only a few inches from it’s resting point (Making the shot completely ineffective and straining upon the person), and if you loose that arrow would most likely flop onto the ground, or not go very far. Get what I’m aiming at? If you’re strong enough, to draw your bow, you can draw it easier and with a slower stamina drain. And then you can make it harder at shooting by certain things like stamina usage, wind, actual accuracy.

Edit: English Longbowmen developed a system for drawing which is now used widely by archery communities and clubs, starting the draw when your bow is lowered, then using both arms to draw, using a short of chest pumping action. Hard to explain… But regular archers you should know what I mean!!

Regards,
Warrior Rose.

4 Likes
#23

as a seasoned medieval re-enactment archer and owner of several longbows i can easily confirm how this sway is not realistic in any way, even when i first started the bow doesn’t sway like that. Accuracy should level up with skill, and MAYBE a slight sway to make it hard to shoot but any sway is not realistic at all

1 Like
#24

I have just recently picked up shooting a bow, but I’m a fast learner and hit the target most of the time. Granted it’s not a heavy warbow, just a 42-pound recurve bow… But you don’t sway that much when aiming it. And this is coming from a beginner. The longer you hold it, the more you start to shake. You sway a little, but not all over the place. Better to just lower your bow and rest and then try again.

1 Like
#25

While I also think that it’s true that the swaying of the bow seems unrealistic, I somewhat accepted it as a necessary gamification of the whole archery thing. True, in reality your arm would seem quite still, but the distribution of arrows on the target seemed quite realistic to me.
It basically looks the same when I grab a bow and shoot the first few dozen arrows after a longer break of a few months, so I think it’s not totally unrealistic that our character (a smith who probably doesn’t have much time/necessity to shoot bows) would get a result like this at the beginning of the game.
But since it’s difficult to get a feeling for the very small variations in stance, draw length etc through a screen and mouse/keyboard or controller, I felt that the swaying is quite a good compromise.

tl;dr: I agree that it looks unrealistic, but since the result works, I’m fine with it.

#26

It feel good af first but then I realized that this abosolutly demotive to try to aim and Im just forced to shoot intuitively.

Something like freelook would makes it challenging too and more realistic IHMO.

1 Like
#27

the bow is only for pro-gamer :smile: :stuck_out_tongue:

#28

Totally agree.
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#29

Hello everybody!

My first post in the forum´s and english is not my first language.

As a hobby bowyer and warbow archer I would like to state a few points about medieval archery.

First the sway is totaly crap both in modern and medieval archery.
I´m not in to modern archery so I can´t relate to some of the statements here, but locking your elbow when using a bow of 100lbs+ is a bad idea. you will get hurt.
When shooting a selfbow (bow made from one piece of wood) you do not want to have it drawn for more than the time needed to aim. you do not stand around tracking targets with full draw, the bow will take damage and possibly explode.

here is a short film about how you do it with a warbow:

My 2 cents…

1 Like
#30

170lb bow!

Guys, please remember this is going to be a game from Central Europe, so I wouldnt expect English warbow made of best Alpine yew :slight_smile:

Evem those 100lb seems a bit too much to me. And consider this one in the alpha is a training bow… (ie 30-40 lb?)

2 Likes
#31

Hi!

Lets clear some things up about draw weights.

For hunting / practise and recreational uses, bows were 60 Lb on average (Especially for hunting, then and now).
For bows designed to kill another man, such as Longbows, would be around 130 lb all the way up to 200 lb (Depending upon many variants and strengths, but also think that you’d train to get stronger to use a better bow, in real life so you wouldn’t stick with what they’d call lower poundage bows) Talking developed useage around 1350 - 1400.

And to give you an idea of how strong they were, I who’ve done archery for 4 years, and my strength is alright can draw a 80 lb Longbow, just. But I can draw repeatedly a 60 lb with comfort, and a 80 lb warbow comfortably.

Regards,
Warrior Rose.

#32

You are talking about english longbows used in Hundred Years’ War or perhaps the composite warbows of the east but I doubt similar bows were used in period Bohemia. I would even argue crossbow was probably the main range weapon used by professional armies,

1 Like
#33

Hi

Im casual archer myself (well… really just casual). I just dont think that 130 - 200 lb bows were available in Bohemia. There wasnt particually good wood for that and as Tunak mentioned, crossbow were absolutly prefered since early 15th century.

Bows here become a weapon of emergency and more a hunting tool (and popular entertaiment during 14th century). So I would see something as 100lb as a top, really (though Im not an expert nor a historian).

#34

Hi,

Yeah, I specialise in 13th C. British Isles, Holy lands (Including isles), 15th C. Mediterranean islands, and British isles with a bit of france. I agree that most armies used crossbows are they’re easy to now use and more stopping power behind them (Was outlawed in england as they’re the devils weapon!!! hence the continuation of bows), and outside of the isles were bows more for recreational use; mainly hunting with draw weights at 60 Lb upwards (Personal preference of the user, but 100 lb is very high for hunting). And as for the wood, you can use alot of variants for good bows, I love Yew or Ash personally, but I’m no expert on bohemian native trees, but if they have no ideal wood for bows, would they care anyway? You can make bows out of whatever you want (even Bamboo which is always fun).

Regards,
Warrior Rose.

#35

No bamboo here :smiley: My point was that you probably wont make a 140 lb bow of linden wood. Or… am I right?

#36

But there are yews and ashes in Bohemia, aren’t they?

1 Like
#37

From what I know, Yews in Bohemia werent ideal for bowmaking. I even read somewhere how some English merchat referst to Spanish and Italian Yews as best and Bohemian as absolutly worst, not worth it.

Ash is there, but aggain… in which quality? And quantity?

Maybe Im just too pessimistic but there must be reson why people prefered corssbow instead of stronger bow.

#38

Hi,

You failed to mention what size the bow should be, so yes it’s possible; wild but possible. :wink:

Regards,
Warrior Rose.

#39

Hi!

As I said… Crossbows require alot less training to use, any fool can use one! While a bow requires training to use one effectively, and a bow takes longer to make, more space, and more expensive. While a Crossbow is small, easy to use, heavier stopping power, and can be used with a shield to effect.

Regards,
Warrior Rose.

#40

Yeah but there is many other ways they could implement a system that makes it hard to use a bow you don’t have the skill for. Such as you cant pull it back to full draw so it doesn’t do as much damage is and is very inaccurate. They could also make it to where you arm trembles because if you are struggling with a bow that does happen.

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