Early gunpowder weapons?

Story & Setting
#72

by that logic, greekfire needs to be implemented.

handguns were rare in that time period and location. they were unwieldy and practically useless on an individual basis. any time spent on it means less time spent on weapons that make more sense and are far more useful. simple as that.

would you like all the weapons that are planned to have more time spent on them, or maybe other things as well, or do you want them to implement a gun(lets not talk about quick and easy implementation, there exists a thing such as q/a, so it’s going to take time), that you will use once for fun and never again? because realistically implemented gun is completely ineffective. and they were not used effectively until the hussite wars.

1 Like
#73

Greekfire wasn’t used on the battlefield in the area where the game takes place, guns were. used in sieges since 1360 something and by 1403 there were a few around, enough to arm the hussites a decade later anyways. Anyways it’s more a novelty item but I can’t image it taking that much time to implement correctly.

#74

Do you even read what we write?

Both cannon and handheld firearms was used during the siege of Tannenberg Castle (Hesse, 46km south of Franfurt am Main.) in 1399. We know this both from written sources and from the fact that archaeological work unearthed shots for firearms on the site.

The rebels in Flanders used firearms effectively in 1382. As I wrote.

In Denmark we have a firearm dated to the same time and from written sources we know that they where used during a danish attack on Gotland in 1402.

So you can’t get around the historical fact that they where used effectively way before th Hussite wars.

Sure, we can ague about priorities… but until now you have argued that they where not effective.

#75

the fact they were used doesn’t mean they were used effectively. and none of the locations mentioned are in bohemia.

until there is actual evidence, not assumptions, suggesting that it was widespread enough inside bohemia during this period that someone like henry would want to use in in lieu of a crossbow or traditional bow, i think it’s not worth it.

before you continue thinking how cool a gun would be. please stop and think how it is used, and whether henry traveling along the roads or backwoods would have any realistic use for it.

1 Like
#76

Some of us aren’t saying they should be used on an individual basis. If they were used during the time period there of the same importance to implement as other weapons that were used. There are pitched battles planned for Act 1, therefore there is a potential that gunpowder weapons could be used - Henry may not even get his hands on one, but they should be there - imagine being immersed in a large scale battle, among your comrades; you start to charge, look to your left and see a company of handgonnes blasting away.

#77

I would imagine firearms being used in sieges and big battles in this game. As i know they were not so accurate on longer distances. There was no grooving and the barrels were short. The trajectory of the projectile was not so straight. Don’t forget firearms had also psychological effect on horses and soldiers. Aldo I can not imagine Henry running with a hand-gone and killing bandits with it. Larger version were also used with a additional stick or pavese. I would rather see better working cold weapons than adding additional firearms.

What Weapon Will You Wield?
#78

http://forum.kingdomcomerpg.com/uploads/default/4298/feab293a115e29a4.jpg

Píšťala (the 2 on the top) was short. Hákovnice was quite long, with barrel at length of about a 100cms, see the pic. And in the Czech language, these were distinguished as different guns by 1403.

As regards the accuracy - I don’t think that these were any less accurate then a bow. And then again, pistols are also quite inaccurate on larger distances, yet the Czechs today have many times more pistols than long rifles or shotguns. It depends on the job it is supposed to do. If it is taking a heavy cavalry apart from short to medium distance (the major use in Hussite warfare), then they were very, very good. If it is taking down a heavily armored foot knight, then again, very, very good. Of course, use against fast moving light cavalry or infantry in open field was limited.

And nobody is arguing that it should be a primary firearm to go after the bandits. But as in-effective as it would be in such a scenario, they were period firearms and the player should have the chance to try. Go, maybe take down one, try to wield it as a club, and die - surely. In other scenarios, such as defending a house, a bridge or castle entrance against heavy cavalry/infantry, with one or two soldiers behind you loading them and two soldiers in front of you keeping enemy at distance - why the hell not?

And which other game should have period firearms if not the one that takes place where the PISTOL got its name?

#79

Why would than muskets be used in volleys? They should be more accurate not? They were fabricated with better techniques and century’s later. Real accurate rifles were fabricated with grooving. Also imagine run with these in village on a quest to kill a bandit, these were used more in castles, battles and with paveses, you can also see the hook on them as they had a lot of kick. There are also short ones on your picture. Like theese.

#80

Please read again what I wrote.

Why would the opening sequence of arrows be in unisono? Why they actually were not used in volleys in Hussite warfare?

You can buy a smoothbore rifle made today. Abrams tank has smoothbore. Why? Why? Why? In 1403 because of technical limitations, today because of different use and purpose.

Pistols/píšťalas were short in 1403 and they are short today. Different gun with different purpose. I never disputed that. I only said that there were long barrel hákovnice available too. Kick? Well .357 has a greater kick than 9mil and yet it is preferred for self defense today. What I am saying is that there are plausible scenarios for successful use of firearms in the game. And that it would be ahistorical not being able to use them.

#81

Please don’t get me wrong. I’m not against firearms in this game. They are historically accurate to be there, but i would rather have functioning fencing than to have firearm just for the reality of the time. But I hope they will be involved at least in acts II and III. Also i see no use for them in small village fights involving max 3 fighters.

#82

‘for the reality of the time’ would be having them. Why would it also be replacing other aspects? It’s just another important aspect, among the many.

#83

I sincerely doubt people would risk their lives in battle and use a weapon that wasn’t effective.

1 Like
#84

A so-so offtopic opinion:
If there will be gunpowder weapons in the game, please, make them loud as hell. :smiley: Naturally, I’m not saying they have to make headphone users need medical attention; but in some games where some form of early, black gunpowder weaponry are implemented (such as in M&B: With Fire and Sword), it is horribly disillusioning to listen those farts these toys are capable of, whereas in reality I’m usually frightened even after the third shot - yet alone the first. :smile:

#85

Yup :slight_smile:

“Please cover your ears when I say >fire<.”

#86

What movie is this?

(apparently, my posts must be at least 20 characters long)

#87

Army of Darkness. It’s a fun movie.

#88

I’d prefer not to have any form of gun in this game, if they are released in other acts that is fine so as give me a chance to skip them like with the mount and blade sequels.

#89

So, basically, you are saying you prefer the game to be more of a historical fiction adjusted to the crowd expectation rather then depiction of 1403 Bohemia? Well, what is the difference between suppressing a historically accurate weapon and introducing hobbits then?

3 Likes
#90

Yes it is an important aspekt, but will you as player also use these weapons? Will there be circumstances for usage of such guns? Long barrel weapons were more accurate but heavy, smaller handgones were not so accurate, but could be carryed easyer. If there will be a castle siege these weapons should not be missing. If you would be fighting one on one battles with bandinds they are realy impropriate. Also there are many games with gunpowder weapons but not so many with realistic fencing. When i think of it there is none game that shows realistic usage of cold weapons. Cutting thru armor with swords atc… If developers manage to create accurate cold weapons and gun powder weapons at the same time this would be awsome.

#91

My response long barreled is very useful first to shoot maybe hit maybe miss then use it as a quarter staff to bash in the head of my foes. There you go a one on one combat usage.

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