Feedback after playing the Beta

So i finally managed to get my hands on the Beta and i figured id post what i think about it as a gamer who primarily plays games for “fun factor” instead of healthy escapism or simply to experience things as hardcore as a flying simulator. I especially like hard action games which require one to observe and learn patterns and details in enemy movements and act accordingly. Examples are Soul series or Ninja Gaiden Series to name a few well known ones.

Areas that I feel need improvement as they are showcased in the beta:

-1 The narrator is supposed to be Henry right? why is his voice not in the playable part? Hes got a cool voice so I strongly advise a direction like that. Current Voice actor sounds depressed and uninspired. The other NPCs are better.

-2 Horse mounting camera always returns automatically to the center while riding. It doesnt allow to visualize the sides or upwards while riding with ease since it resets on its own. Camera reset button is also needed (usually R3 on a joystick).

-3 Regular horse sprint stamina is much too low, I feel it needs an increase.

-4 I take it the main character is working for the army so he should receive a meager salary mainly to be able to buy basic food and bath in the final version in the game. Unless he returns to farming or blacksmithing. That would be realistic i think. Even though you can abuse bandits and what not for money since he is working he should get paid and receive a bed to spend the night freely at the army camp. The notion of buying a house would be nice too but i dont feel its quite as nessesary as inserting him in a position of “belonging” to an organization by getting paid and having a place to return in the name of added inmersion.

-5 When asking for directions , said Inn, shop, blacksmith, etc need sto be added as an icon on the map.

-6 Town pubs are much too silent. While the beta portion seems extremely rural some banter and ambience SFX noise is a requierement, especially at the pub. Just like bird chirping has been added in the forests.

-7 Subtitles apperaring above the head of the speaker. Please remove that, its very uninmersive. Have the subtitles appear below like it does in movies in a not too big not too small font.

-8 At night the “towns” are much to dark. More light sources will vastly improve ambience. Nights themselves are also unnaturally dark. I hope this get fixed so some moonlight shines the way. Would also like a lamp like the NPCs have to walk at night instead of walking throuh town like an angry plebe with torch in hand.

-9 Big bushes need collision for added horse riding inmmersion. For walking too.

-10 Combat:

The low stamina regeneration makes fights painfully slow, unninteresting and clunky. This makes the entire combat not feel visceral but gamey instead. MC looks fit and able so theres no reason why he couldnt string three sword attack and have a good reserve for a counter. But the main problem is the regeneration which makes combat drag on far more than it should.

More shouts and louder ones from NPCs and main character too would make things more interesting and less monotone.

In the beta it takes several blows to unarmored foes to fell them which i think is unrealistic. Henry himself also has quite a lot of resistance to damage. But maybe the beta is on normal or unbalanced. I hope a hard mode will be added to make victory more quick and sudden by lethal blows from part of enemies and Henry himself.

Hard mode should have directional block instead of auto block for added inmersion and the removal of the HUD sword stance indicator.

Im going to assume the retail game will allow 2 vs 1 or more combats so ill point out the problems the locking system would generate. Firstly the concept of hardlock is quite dated as it makes things feel clunky and more complex than they should be. Games that require it are action games that pit one against many enemies like Devil may cry and games of its ilk. This game would benefit i believe with a softlock aproach. The game locks onto the closest enemy or the enemy you are facing. This would elevate the inmersion of the battles tenfold. To accompany this, smoother and moderate quicker movement speed when sword is drawn (steps) are a requirement.

Quick steps are activated with timing while under attack but why is this nessesary when a person can quickstep whenever he wants? a double directional tap of the analog stick or other command could achieve the same thing while adding more depth to the game instead of limiting it as a possible result to an enemy action. Quick steps could also lead into different variants of attacks because of momentum that need to be watched out for. They could lead into tossing weaker or unprepared enemies into the ground allowing for a ground stab or execution.

Parries and ripostes feel generally fine to execute but the enemy parring rates feels so random and theres no visual indication that they will execute one as far as i know. A certain visual quirk animation could fix this for AI enemies. Of course a riposte can be parried for a counter counter attack but being able to discern one and skip it in the first place would feel much better. I know having the enemies subtly telegraph that they have a parry ready is not realistic per se but lets not forget this is a game and certain tools are always nessesary to allow one to be above the programed random nature of AI controled enemies. If PVP was present of course said indicator will/should not be there since it man against man. I also suggest using the LT button for guarding since Xbox controllers lack responsiveness in both of it bumper buttons. Its a well known problem for xbox controllers. Kick could be assigned to LB (left bumper) instead.

Ive yet to find a bow so ill refrain to comment on that but as long as it allows a certain degree of prediction where the arrow will go it should suffice. I may update if find one and feel its not quite right.

All this being said i feel the beta is quite enjoyable and shows a lot of promise and potential. Keep up the good work and show those guys at Bethesda how first person sword fighting should be done.

Cheers.

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It would be nice, but it’s not gunna happen. The Devs have called this out previously, and stated that Henry may more than likely have a room or place to stay, sleep and rest. But no real estate tycoon type stuff.

Just touching on your other points;

1.) Where did you get that impression from? For me, the narrator and Henry are two distinct and different individuals.

2 & 3.) Agreed. And these items have been spoken about in other Beta Bug related threads

4.) It is my understanding that Henry is outside of the chain of command of the army, and is actually working directly for the lord. He will no doubt be rewarded for his efforts as the game and quests progress. Whether or not the game facilitates Henry actually joining the army, either as a part of the levy or as a paid soldier… who knows.

5.) There’s arguments for and against this. It doesn’t need to be added to the map. In fact, it’s more realistic to have to rely on those given directions to find said point of interest before any map marker is added. But obviously having a marker added automatically would make things much easier.

6.) The beta in it’s current form that we have access to, is more of a tech demo than a true beta release. So just keep that in mind

7.) Yep, that’s annoying alright. Agreed

8.) Not sure I agree with you on this. Obviously for some of the bigger towns, yes. But for the smaller villages who lack the man power and infrastructure, they’d surely be in near complete darkness at certain times during the night. We’ve got to remember the year and location of our story.

10.) The combat system is based on Stamina. There will no doubt be improvements and optimisations to this system prior to final release. Whether or not we as backers get to ‘test’ this is another story. I encourage you to refer to some of the many combat related threads for detail on previous and lengthy discussions on this and other combat related matters.

EDIT: Just noticed that you’ve posted to the Combat Thread. Good job

I agree with you on the hard lock, I personally don’t like the way it functions. But I understand the concept and reasoning behind it. In reality, one person against a number of foes will more often than not go the way of the many. And the lock system is designed to impart that sense of tension, drama and difficulty for you as the individual.

and in relation to the bow…[quote=“Flamberge, post:1, topic:28924”]
as long as it allows a certain degree of prediction
[/quote]
This is not something we’ll see in the game, I can say with great confidence. This degree of prediction that you mention in terms of knowing where and how your arrow will act is something that simply comes with practice and experience. And in KCD, I’m sure it will be no different.

Nicely formatted and constructed post though, and I’m sure the devs appreciate the feedback.

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Thanks,

The narrator speaks from Henrys position or so i believe so i figure they are one and the same but for some reason the beta got voiced by someone else.

As for the bow i wasnt speaking of a target aim but that the arrows dont need to have random spread like for example in the fallout games. So if you know you got the aim right you can get that calculated heart shot 100% of the time.

Can anyone direct me to a bow in the beta please? ive still no luck finding one.

You can just buy one from the Talmberg innkeep. If you don’t want to spend the coin you can also kill bandits or hunt around the map for cahces, but the innkeep is someone you should visiit anyway in order to grab some head protection.

Exellent! thanks! im loaded with money since i was betting it while sparing at the soldiers camp.

When are developers gona make another beta patch? Optimization is killing me, damn! 30 FPS with GTX 1080 - wtf?

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whoaa, dude you must be rich :heart_eyes:

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It is not only about the graphic. Main factor in FPS is the complex AI system right now, even the best graphic card does not help here at all. Unfortunately there are no new updates planned right now. Our focus is on the final game :slight_smile:

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But core i7 4790K should handle it fine, But it doesnt… I hope you’ll opimize the final game…

Naaa, just sold my two old GPUs, added some money :slight_smile:

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30 FPS are acutally pretty good for the state for the Beta right now. And yes, we are working on optimization for the final game for sure.

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I actually agree with most of what the OP has said.

So, there will be no update before the final release then? I don’t get that. Why not have people test the current build? Wouldn’t that help iron out/report more bugs on different systems instead of having to deal with it after release?

I don’t think that there will be no update at all before the final release. I guess the ComMgr was refering only to the optimization process that doesn’t include general updates and fixes.

It is not that easy. In fact the beta is a specially prepared slice of the game. Better optimized and with less bugs than the development build. Things are fitting better together in the Beta, the development build is changing every day and people would way less happy about it, because they would expect something more finished.
At the same time, Kingdom Come Deliverance is still a story driven RPG, if we would release the current developer build, this would clearly spoil the story.

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Like you I just started with the beta. I found out about KCD in blog comments about a space game that said if you want to really see what CryEngine can do don’t look to xxxx (the space game) but at KCD. Here’s my feedback.

  1. I agree.

  2. Yes,definitely. You need money to train and buy things but there aren’t ways to earn it so we end up stealing food, etc. to avoid fainting.

  3. Yes,

  4. Night is too dark! I know it’s medieval times but this basically means you can’t move during dark.

  5. I believe they are working on this but I agree that right now stamina decreases too quickly. Medival (and Roman soldiers) fought for long periods of time as they were conditioned by training.

My comments to add.

A. I’ve gotten fined for crimes twice and have no idea why. They just say “you hurt someone” or you committed a crime. I haven’t killed anyone other than a bad guy so how can this be. It would be nice to know what the crime was.

B. Since Henry works for the Lord he would be trained in combat by the Lord so as part of the Lord’s people he should have an area to go for free training especially since there isn’t many ways to earn money. We should be able to set the level of training (basic, medium, advanced). Combat is hard by design in KCD so we need what they had back then - an opportunity to train.

C. I know it’s being worked on as part of the optimization program and there is a lot going on in the background for AI, etc. but the passage of time for sleeping and waiting is way too slow. I hope it will be much faster in the game.

KCD is sort of a first as I’ve played a lot of games (The original Adventure on a PDP 11 was the first and then Castle Wolfenstein back in the day - the first on the PC) but I haven’t played “realistic” based games but I’m intrigued by the plot and KCD looks interesting.

you still have a torch. It makes not that much of light but you can at least follow the road.

You can also fight for long period of time, but not by smashing attack button all the time.
But combat will yet go through some tweaking, though I cannot say to what extent.

Crime system is something we are still working on, what you can see in beta is just a retarded brother to our beautiful crime system we are baking here.

Yes, Henry does work for a lord, but he is just a son of a blacksmith. As you probably know, most of the quests will be possible to finish without violence. There of course will be some opportunities to train (for example the arena in Merhojed soldier camp, though it might be moved somewhere else).
But keep in mind that fighting is not the main focus of the game.

yes

good to hear!

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Mmm i think what people want is not smashing but being able to fight reactively and the game to allow them to be reactive as well. The current slow regen stamina bar encourages and only allows repetitive gamey combat.

Let me show a flowchart of what a no risks (no risk being being almost perfect and not miss even one parry, avoid sidestep counters and dont fully run out of stamina) battle is as it is in the beta:

Feint once > try a combo > RNG get parried > counter the riposte and you are almost gasping for breath > Get away for 7 seconds or more to get full stamina while you kite the enemy in circles >
Feint once > try an unblockable 3 part combo > RNG get sidesteped > counter the counter and you are gasping for breath > Get away for 7 seconds or more to get full stamina while you kite the enemy in circles.

Not only this makes combat look repetitive, slow and uninteresting but after long you learn that trying to push the enemy when you are confident gets you punished by the randomness of the AI and you dont have enough stamina to react in a satisfying manner. This will make people loose interest in fighting quick. If i want to quick step when an enemy blindsides me i simply cant do the same to put some distance. the limitations are many.

While fighting may not be the focus you can trust that the bigger chunk for the game sales beyond those who backed on kickstarter will be people primarily interested in the combat aspect of the game. Since its a game it has to feel satisfying and the game has to provide plenty of combat scenarios (RNG or not, avoidable or not) even for a good pascifist role kind of main character. Because talking around all day is not very fun and the fields are full of herbs to make usefull combat potions. People want to see what being a “knight” is and good combat is how you keep them interested. Also the amount of fetchquests in the beta is big. Remember, people hate fetchquest in AAA singleplayer games so keep those to a minimun.

Which reminds me… that animation when you pick herbs is annoying. picking up stuff like herbs, food, etc has to be quickened.

Thanks for the information. I agree crimes are not well developed! For stamina I try to avoid mashing the button but still feel it goes down too quickly.

I’m still puzzled as how to finish the game without violence. As far as I can see there is no real way to earn money other than either stealing or looting bad guys and you need to fight to get the loot. Also, when you are attacked you sometimes have no choice but to stand and fight when you cannot run. Although fighting may not be the main focus of the game it was a part of medieval times and you learned at least something about fighting or you died. But maybe I’m missing something.

I’m looking forward to seeing the changes.

Good points, Flamberge. You expressed very well what I was trying to say. Combat is an integral part of this era and game and yes Henry is a blacksmith and if that’s all he were going to do he would not learn how to fight. But somehow he’s in the service of a Lord and is put in positions where he has to fight so combat will be part of the game and as you say for some very important.

How do you find let alone pick herbs?

Well, theres a variety that can be picked if you focus the camera on them, like the yellow flowers which are dandelions…