Homosexuality in gaming

Off-topic
#1

Continuing the discussion from Homosexuality In The Game/Time Period:

So I found a video that delves into this issue. I know that the last topic it really went off topic about why is homosexuality an issue in gaming. Why would developers include LGBT themes? Well I found this video with game developers discussing the issue. So I figured I’d instead start a thread about that since it’s what people seemed to want to talk about. I really wish I would have done this sooner so the other topic would have stayed on topic.

David Gaider - BioWare *lead writer of Dragon Age series
AI Programmer for EA
and two others speak on the panel

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Getting married, seducing, some romantic content
Realism, How far should it be taken
#2

Are they talking about a realistic and authentic medieval game? If not, I don’t think it’s really relevant.

Generally speaking, homosexuality in games is a form of consumer appeal and market-base expansion. So LGBT people, these major publisher backed devs are not your friends, they’re deeply involved in the business of making money. They won’t include homosexuality unless they thought it would improve profitability.

There have been no game thus far that has included LGBT themes for the sake or art or gameplay. Or if they have, it didn’t work very well, if at all.

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#3

Well there has been at least one LGBT centered game that has been created and successful. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/obscurasoft/coming-out-on-top-a-gay-dating-sim-video-game

However I’d prefer games to be treated like the developers above mentioned. As for the subject mot being relevant. There is a reason we have an “off-topic” section.

#4

This topic is almost as bad as the religion topic.
Why should this ever be brought up at all.

It’s an individuals choice to be what they want to be there is no need to ram other peoples perceptions and beliefs on anyone. If Religion and Sex is overly pushed in this game I’m going to bin it at the start and I will be most displeased with the game developers for doing so. More so with the people pushing to have LGBT included in any game.

I don’t see why this game cant just exist without you trying to turn it into a sausage or carpet munching fest. Why the hell is this topic even on these forums FFS!

EDIT just seen that this is an off-topic post but all the same my stance stands for all games excluding those that are intended for the LGBT communities directly.

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#5

It is supposed to give you the opportunity to mod. Then each of your game with naked, gay and lesbian NPC’s can build, in a world in which all believe exactly what others do not want to believe. And there can then also all find a home, who feel discriminated against. Signing this mod then clearly so is there any lost unintentionally. Most of this world does not want to play, they already live in it …

#6

thanks madaras- what a great discussion! as a gaymer, i approve this broadcast ^^

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#7

I think it would be really hard to include trans people in games without offending them directly. How would the devs achieve this? I guess the best way would be to hire a trans person to help them flesh out the characters and how they should look etc.

#8

To me, it just shouldn’t matter.

Let me explain myself before you release the hounds!

What I mean by that is someone’s sexuality or gender preference shouldn’t matter in games. This goes both ways for the agents (straight, cis people like myself) and the non-agents (LGBTQIPA).

Mass Effect did a wonderful job of this IMO especially in ME3. When you hung out with Cortez or Samantha, you didn’t care about their Homosexuality, you cared about Cortez’s grief over his husband and Samantha’s adjusting to military life, things that can be applied to any other character. Eventually, their sexuality became an afterthought, and certainly not a judge of their character.

That’s how I want games to approach lgbtqipa characters; who they sleep with (EDIT: and what their gender preference is beyond being respectful) isn’t a big deal, I’m more interested if they’re good at their job and fun to chill with.

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#9

I’m both female and married to a woman in RL. I guess that makes me “gay”, so I might be able to speak as a gay gamer? I don’t really go into labels though, I think it takes away and obscures the person behind them. I think of myself just as an avid gamer. Whatever. Both my wife and I also see ourselves simply as women too, who happen to like each other. And I have to be honest, I’m not a fan of the “agenda” that the LGBT sometimes forces down the throats of others, either. I understand how it helps create awareness, of which I am grateful, but it’s also naive to pretend it also doesn’t sometimes border on proselytizing, and even I can find the awareness creation irritating or unwelcome at times.

For example, if any game included LGBT issues, I would sincerely hope it did so because they fit and were an integral part of the story-line. JUST to include LGBT issues to be “aware and progressive” is not something I want to see in any game I play. If, for example, Kingdom Come: Deliverance included it, I would hope it would be part of the story and have some relevant and profound aspects that were grounded in the time period. Like, it might be interesting to have a Joan d’Arc type character for example, rise to some degree of power, wearing men’s clothes (military attire, trans even in Medieval eyes) with rumors of a gay lover…but just like in real life, maybe she’d get tried as a heretic in the game? In any case, I wouldn’t even want to see her unless she was a meaningful part of the story. This is really a silly topic. It should go without saying that any work of art, story telling or game creation, should include in it all the pieces, and only those pieces, that make it a great work of art worth experiencing, and not cow-tow to every political hotbed topic of present day, even noble ones like LGBT (unless they are integral to that work of art).

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#10

I completely agree with your entire post. Thank you for writing it. If you watch the video they’re pretty much saying the exact same things. Most homosexual people feel the way you do. (At least in the gamer community) In games like Mass Effect and The Last of us homosexuality is incorporated very well and unless you really like Kaiden for instance, as a guy, then you won’t ever find out that he’s bi-sexual. It made the experience very rich and rewarding as my Sheapard dodged the rabid attempts of seduction from every female on the ship. To finally make it to ME3 and have his love returned. The goal is from the gaymer’s perspective and developers perspective is to make homosexuality a non-issue.

For instance mentioned in the video the ESRB thought that two men siting on a bench cuddling was over the top because it was an AI gay couple that wasn’t initiated by the player. However when they brought up the topic of incestial relationships they said that was fine. EA Of course did not add incest as a possibility however it was ESRB approved.

So in the end. As much as I don’t want to bring up these topics someone needs to in a civilized manner or it will remain an issue that’s never addressed or looked at badly because of the people with a “political agenda” I truly can’t stand that type.

Transgender

Denoting or relating to a person whose self-identity does not conform unambiguously to conventional notions of male or female gender.

That’s really easy to do cloud for instance cross dressed in Final Fantasy 7. Also we had Makato in Enchanted Arms, which I’m not sure what he considered himself, but he seemed transgendered (or gay) to me.

#11

You really want to forcefully inject modern issues into a historical game don’t you? Why don’t you just not bring it up and let the game be neutral? Things like this is why the general public seems to have such a negative image of the community as they always shove it into their faces. It’s also why I tend to feel so sore about it when I see it, I don’t want people like you representing me.

I’d much prefer just to live my life without my preferences being made into an issue because it reflects badly on me. My boyfriend has no problem with me liking other girls, as does no one else I’ve met. Yet when I see those very same people complaining about someone who shoves it into their face on TV I get looks. So please just stop it. You’re doing damage to everyone by spamming these topics, and what’s more it’s hardly relevant in this period. Homosexuality was seen as a grave crime against the laws of men and God and was quite heavily suppressed. You’re not going to find anyone who openly says “I’m gay, or bisexual,” in 1403 because they likely value their life.

10 Likes
#12

This is the OFF-TOPIC section, you gobshite.
He put this here NOT to further intertwine this topic with the game.

Topic like this has just as much a right of existing in the off-topic section as your usual “Sexiest lasses & Tits” thread.

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#13

You appear to want to forcefully inject your own ignorance into topics once again. Before you get defensive allow me to point out your ignorance.

That is a neon flashing sign of ignorance since this topic has been made in the “Off-Topic” section Also in the original post nothing is mentioned about including homosexuality in the game. That aside there could be 20 different topics about homosexuality in the game with 20 different aspects and perspectives that weren’t discussed previously. For instance my last thread, which went wildly off-topic with comments like yours, was only meant to gather knowledge from anthropologist or people in the know about how homosexuals in that time period would find love if they sought to do so. However they did so, if they did so, would be an historic aspect of that time period. I wasn’t asking for someone to forcefully inject it into the time period, but obviously it did exist within that time period or none would have been killed. However someone else could have an entirely different discussion on on homosexuality as it relates to the game that I haven’t thought of.

This topic is about homosexuality in gaming which many people in the last thread wished to talk about. Since it was and still is off-topic as related to this game I posted it into the off-topic section. Along with a video including a panel of developers who talk about this issue.

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#14

I think in the modern community, there are more and more people accepting your lifestyle choice. Nevertheless shoving it constantly into their faces doesn’t help your cause. To quote the youtube video from the last thread: “omg I’m not being persecuted, I’m just an asshole”. It is not us heterosexuals not accepting your lifestyle it rather feels like you don’t accept ours.
I’m constantly wondering about people who want to tell their neighbours and co-workers about their choices in life aso. And it is often your kind who tries to inform everybody in the room about your sexual experiences. I’ve worked for a music company 3 years ago. Roughly 1/4 of the male co-workers were gay. There was only one gay guy though who didnt jump into your face constantly reminding you of his sexual lifestyle choices. All the other gay coworker were constantly talking about IT.
I’m going to call the one gay guy exception Steve. Steve and I hang out alot after work, watching sport, talking about work, life, family, his kids and real problems in our relationships. He was kinda annoyed by his gay coworkers. He called em fashion-gay. Talking about cloth, hollywood stars, giggling like girls, talking about their lovers all the time. And they were all aggressivly gay. Defending their choice with insults and so on.

Your first thread was somewhat funny. And you had a point talking about some ingame stuff. This thread on the other hand just feels like some sad crusade from a fashion-gay.
I don’t talk about my sexlife, nobody here does tbh and neither should you. I understand this is an offtopic thread but even an offtopic thread has to be on topic somehow. This is still a KC Forum. You can talk here about medieval warfare in general, pledging, medieval music or whatsoever. Being Gay is not an offtopic genre. Thats a topic for a coupling website.

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#15

I understand where you’re coming from. You sound like a cool guy to me. However as I’ve already stated this thread was to move the off-topic discussions going on in the previous thread over to here. It’s not some crusade (that would be somewhat on topic though :P) I did not begin the topic of homosexuality in gaming, that was others in another thread. I did try to create a central point for that discussion though. Offered an informative video showing one side of the issue so that people could continue in a friendly discussion. However it seems the majority of people here wish to turn it into a bloodbath and not engage in proper conversation.

#17

And thus the difficulty of civilized discussion on the internet rears its ugly head.

#18

I won’t elaborate a lot on this, but rather state my preference in games in general: to me it’s rather obvious that LGBT themes in games in general are widely avoided by the whole industry, which is a shame. In games claiming to be (somewhat) historically accurate (such as Deliverance) I would expect LGBT to be portrayed with the same approach. To me, that would mean gay people, for instance, are not displaying their relationships openly. However, that does not mean it shouldn’t be encountered by the player character (who, after all, is likely to encounter a lot of things not displayed openly in society). Homosexuality (as an example) has always played a part in human society and culture and should do so in games also imo.

Some people regard LGBT themes in games as “political” or the idea of its rare presence as somehow shoving political or cultural values down their throats and expose them to something they don’t wan’t to be exposed to. I don’t agree with that and I don’t consider including a part of humanity since day 1 a cause for bolting. However, I realize my take on this has more to do with my view on LGBT issues in real life than any argument I could conjure up about why it should be present in games. If you have a problem with this topic in real life, you’re likely to have problems with it in games.

Ops, that did come out longer than planned! :open_mouth:

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#19

the issue of gays in gaming has gone beyond mere inclusion, it’s now really more about form and function.

i liken this need for homosexuals in games/literature/etc to the desire of some directors like spike lee who insist on having minority “quotas” in film. for example, he once blasted clint eastwood for not showing any black people in his two films about ww2. while true, he could have made a scene depicting a black cook on a ship or perhaps a landing craft driver, but it wouldn’t have contributed to the narrative. it’s a movie, not a documentary.

same thinking behind those who criticized spielberg for saving private ryan not depicting non american allies. again, the story follows closely the american landings, at no point could he have included the brits without ruining the narrative. and how about the other nations? to suggest that saving private ryan is “american propaganda” for its exclusions is like saving stalingrad was german propaganda for excluding the japanese. it’s nonsense.

again, people seem to want their “token” representation, with no consideration for scope, story, setting, or theme.

and that’s the main point, if it’s outside the scope and narrative or your game or story, is there any point to include them?

some people think so, that’s why you get these “token” characters there simply to appease people, which contributes to the disappointment with gay depictions. they’re usual shallow and a means to belt out patronizing, token social commentary. it’s insulting and disingenuous.

so the lgbt people have a choice really. face the fact that no every game is going to have gay people, and will be better off for it. or make sure every game gets a “quota” and end up creating caricatures and lazy stereotypes.

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#20

Calm down kid. No need to be offensive. You can make your point without calling people names.

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#21

Haven’t seen a sexiest lasses & Tits Thread on he KC Forum yet, though.

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