How to counter the "dumbing down": Advice for Warhorse Studios to deliver a true Hardcore RPG

Gameplay
#21

It’s great that Skyrim and Fallout are so mod-able - By the time I’m finished adjusting them it feels like I’ve made my own personal hardcore mode (HUD position, scale, translucency - timescale - Frostfall - RND and so on).

I know Warhorse are considering a more intensive ‘hardcore mode.’ I hope they go for it + give us options to adjust and turn on/off any features that we like in between fully/crazily hardcore mode and standard.

(I never use the compass or markers, both hidden - Sometimes I have to check where something is, but rather that than permanently on GPS tracking!)

#22

Yeah I personally think location map markers should only show up when you actually FIND a location…or identify it from a distance. I never liked being told I found a cave or a dungeon in Skyrim only to look around and be like “WHERE?”

It was usually under me.

#23

The first post and the title of this thread don’t match.

Stating that you don’t like the compass in a game or quest marker doesn’t counter “dumbing down”. It’s only one single (minor) element in the game and people usually mean different things by “dumbing down” and usually it’s crap.

Also a “true hardcore RPG” sounds kind of elitist and arrogant, meaning that there is only one golden way to heaven. Truth is that there is nothing like a true hardcore RPG. There are just a bunch of elements and systems and techniques mixed to end up in an interactive experience. The ultimate goal by mixing them is to make an enjoyable experience and not follow list A or B to the true hardcore RPG.

Sorry, I don’t like the whole tone of this topic. Why not making a thread called: “How about cutting the compass in order to push exploration?” That would be a reasonable topic about the real issue and not some kind of “I know it better than all those casual kids around me” bullshit, sorry. I don’t know if you meant it that way but all the way you created this discussion just leads to my suspicion.

I’ll pass.

1 Like
#24

I think KCD can learn from a lot of the mistakes previous games have made when it comes to terms like “Dumbing Down” and I have confidence that the developers will make the decisions that will stop and take the game away from becoming, for lack of a better word and I dislike using this one, “casual”. I mean “casual” in the sense of an easy, point click and follow hack and slash cookie cutter adventure game.

I love skyrim so much, but it is nothing compared to how morrowind was and I hope the KCD devs stay away from the errors that made Skyrim so inferior to its much older prequel. Now I find that Skyrim is only playable when I have Requiem and Frostfall and a few other minor mods installed. For those who still play skyrim I recommend trying out Requiem, an amazing mod that makes the game and combat much harder and much more satisfying.

As for the OP’s comment on the compass/journal system; I love the way morrowind worked. I.E. You were given the quest, general directions were written in your journal and then the adventure and exploration began to find said cave/ruin for the quest. This not only made the game feal more real but also made it a lot more fun as the quest became something more than “go here and kill this monster”, instead it become an adventure in its own as you trek off into the wilderness encountering all these things (like naked nords:P) and dangers en route finally to arrive at your goal and hoping you still have enough potions and good gear to defeat what lay inside.

EDIT: fixed up some minor errors

2 Likes
#25

In hindsight, the title and tone are arrogant, my apologizes for causing a disturbance. And while I have only covered one topic, I will address others when I’m ready.

But I will respectfully disagree with[quote=“LordCrash, post:23, topic:14380”]
there is nothing like a true hardcore RPG.
[/quote]

Not trying to offend your intelligence, but humans like to categorize things in groups in order for us to make more sense of them. And I believe games are no different.

If a agreed upon description of ‘hardcore RPG’ is made by the community or educated minds, than anything falling under that description could be called a ‘hardcore RPG’ as long as you were willing to subscribe to the general understanding of ‘hardcore RPG’ . And this is where I think the problems lies with you and this topic. You don’t believe in large, banner slogans of what makes a game ‘hardcore’ and why.

And you know what? I’m totally fine with that. It’s your opinion, do what you want as long as you’re civil about it.

And I will bring up other topics, just haven’t found the time or nailed down what it is exactly I’d like to bring up. If someone else wants to start the ball, feel free.

Different Animations for Different Weapons
#26

Pretty strange that a blacksmith would have a map of his own local area. Maps weren’t just available in the visitor information centre, you had to have a cartographer draw the map for you.

I think the compass makes more sense in this case, because the character would actually know where places are, but probably wouldn’t be able to afford a map and certainly wouldn’t carry it around with him if he could.

It shouldn’t point to the exact location of events though, it should point to the nearest landmark, if you’ve been given a place to go. For the “search those woods” quest, the compass should point you toward the nearest boundary of the woods and disappear when you get there.

1 Like
#27

I kind of assumed that the in-game ‘map’ just represents Henry’s knowledge of the local area. He’s lived there all his life, after all…

1 Like
#28

I remember there was feeling of being ‘in game’ in Gothic 2, because there was only map (which you could get if you had money, or did favor for one character, or just stole it from him). There wasn’t compass or arrow showing where you should go. If you were lost, you could talk to nearly NPC-s and they would tell you directions.
I think it really adds to atmosphere.

5 Likes
#29

Shouts of agreement!!

1 Like
#30

Perhaps the when footpads assailed him they hit him on the head and he truly has no recall.

No parents and not many memories. That would be convenient.

#31

Did you watch the kickstarter video? It was the words of Warhorse, not the OP.

#32

I’ve lived in my town my whole life and I probably couldn’t write down more than a few streets worth of details. Besides, it’s a bit of a grey area on when the protagonist is in control and when the player is. He is a blacksmith and yet needs instructions on how to smith, likely for the player’s benefit.For the sake of exploration and fun I’d much rather have an explore as you go approach than the God-mode know everything instantly. It opens up venues for cartography too.

#33

Depends how much you travel, I guess. If Henry visits different towns and villages on a regular basis (making deliveries, say), it’s plausible that he would know the local area reasonably well. That said, I wouldn’t mind if certain areas of the ‘map’ were left blank until the player explores them.

2 Likes
#34

Perhaps the map can be the quest reward received early in the game. Until then everything you’re looking for is close at hand or has well marked signage. As someone said, cartography is a trade so maybe Henry can do a task for one and receive the map as his reward.

Just a thought.

1 Like
#35

I can agree with most of this, but that doesn’t mean I’d like it to be something like Skyrim with a compass system and “little floaty arrows”, my basic map system I’d like would be something like Morrowind’s map, where you know which direction you’re facing (north ,south,east,west) and you can check your map to see how far you are from your destination. (And of course, once you’ve revealed a location you can see it on your map.)

(EDIT: btw, nice Mandate pic, looking forward to that game.)

#36

Is that you, brother

#38

If you’re referring to the “What constitutes dumbing down” thread and this thread, this thread was created a week before the “What constitutes dumbing down” one.

#39

As long as I can find my way in a reasonable time, I’m all in favour of a more “hardcore” experience. Just making things obtuse because that’s “hardcore” is pointless and unnecessarily old-fashioned.

The time of pencils and paper is over, as far as CRPG’s go.

#40

I think a Hardcore mode with very limited HUD and hand-holding in favor of a detailed journal and character descriptions would be an excellent feature. :smile:

#41

Ability to control every aspect of HUD separately is enough.

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