So a lot of you probably remember this guy:
I just noticed that a sort of debunk video was uploaded around the same time, and since most people here are interested in historical accuracy I felt you would be interested 
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IT is just as problematic as the original video… making claims that are wrong and that they don’t back up properly.
Oh I’m sorry, tried to search for it but I found no results. Should I just delete this one?
All the other were deleted… so just keep this one so they’ll stop making posts (I already made one a month ago silly me)
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They are not deleted whatsoever there aren’t just many dedicated to Lars himself (the ones that are dedicated have been locked because of flaming).
this video has been posted in almost every single archery thread made.
Look this ones still open.
Archery like the world hasn’t seen in hundreds of years - this thread even has multiple versions of Lars’s videos.
I would do more digging but this should be sufficient to prove my point.
The real question is… can Lars Anderson hit the target in KC:D alpha demo?? That’s where archery will really matter in this day and age.
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The original video I posted was just to show everyone what I was referring to, I know that one has been posted before.
I just wanted to share the second one.
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I think your the first to post that one.
There’s been a few links to written debunks no videos yet.
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no, he barely pulls the string back. all his super fast shots will bounce right off plate and even thick gambesons.
also, a lot of his trickier shots are way too difficult, not to mention dangerous, to have been performed without the aid of fishing wires and digital editing.
aside from obvious problem of poor historical accuracy, supposition, etc my verdict on the man, personally: fraud
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Nice rebuttal of the original video. She’s kinda cute, too (sorry, couldn’t help it).
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I’m going to go ahead and leave the same response I left on the “skepticallyPwnd” video, please read and consider…At what time did she actually use any evidence? It was opinion disguised as fact by calling him on something he didn’t prove via source but proved via action, that she didn’t disprove.
So without anything further, my response to that terrible “debunking” video.
"You have yet to disprove what he’s saying. You claim historical pictures can’t be used to make an argument because “artists of the past would have fewer resources to draw upon” to make accurate depictions, but then you use them to make a counter argument. If they’re inaccurate for him to use than they are inaccurate for you to use and that only hurts your credibility through hypocrisy. While he may not have released his sources (I say “may” because I do not know,) I have done some digging and found some of what he was probably referring to for you.
Let’s start with “Saracen Archery,” which is an English translation of a Mameluke work on archery, written in the year 1368.
It’s worth reading the preface and also looking at the bibliography for further sources on the matter from the publisher that translated it.
If you go to page 87 of the PDF (133 of the actual book) you will see the technique that you call “exaggerated” in 14:10 of your video.
I’d also direct you to “The Song of Hiawatha” which says:
"Strong of arm was Hiawatha;
He could shoot ten arrows upward,
Shoot them with such strength and swiftness,
That the tenth had left the bow-string
Ere the first to earth had fallen!"
http://www.hwlongfellow.org/poems_poem.php?pid=278
This was thought to be ridiculous and impossible until Lars Andersen went and did it. There actually are historical texts backing his claim, just because he hasn’t posted his sources (or just because you have yet to discover sources that he may have posted,) does not mean they do not exist.
So what have we learned? We have learned that legend has been backed by historical text and that historical text has been proven on film by Lars Andersen, so explain to me again how you “debunked” him? I heard you make a poor argument citing “evidence” that you said wasn’t credible. I have presented you with the sources you asked for, now I’d like hear what you have to say on the matter to “debunk” me. But this time, I’d recommend using actual evidence, or somehow proving that my sources are inaccurate. Thus far, Lars has shown these practices to be very real, practical, and executable.
One point I’d like to make about your artists and resources claim. If drawings from hundreds, and thousands of years ago are so inaccurate, how is it that cartographers of the time managed to make such highly detailed and accurate maps as to astonish even modern map makers with their satellite technology? And imposing our media culture inaccuracy on ancient cultures is bad logic. For all you know the people who made those pictures were contracted by kings to create historical records. Some of those easily could have been created by historians of the time, which is far more likely than them being created by the Michael Bay of the time. Just food for thought. Don’t think for a second that people 1,000 years ago were any less intelligent or sophisticated. There’s an interesting article going around about a 1,000 year old Anglo-Saxon text that has a cure for a Stye infection that we, with all our labs, couldn’t come up with. As it happens, it also kills the superbug MRSA just as effectively as Vancomycin, an extremely powerful, last resort antibiotic. MRSA has even been developing an immunity to vancomycin and it’s starting to lose it’s effectiveness yet, an ancient people a thousand years ago have a remedy that can kill it.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn27263-anglo-saxon-remedy-kills-hospital-superbug-mrsa.html
While I’m at it I might point out our own historical knowledge isn’t quite as grounded as we think. As it happens, organized civilization may well have started 5,000 years before we believed it to have started. They’re finding underwater cities that date back nearly 10,000 years, which disrupts the civilization chronological timeline quite a bit. In fact, our understanding of the human timeline is what you might call "debunked."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1768109.stm
The point here is this, just because something may have become common in one time doesn’t mean it will continue, and it doesn’t even mean we’ll know if it was ever common. The scientific method is wonderful but it doesn’t always get built upon the way it’s supposed to. History has a way of disappearing certain parts of it, I’m sure there were plenty of people in that time that were more than happy to destroy books that discussed anything remotely scientific or medical. Just like with MRSA, we had to create something new to kill it because a text that should have been built upon was lost. For all we know Lars is breathing new life into an old technique that could be the same thing. Things are lost until they’re found, that’s how it works. Put the work in, do the research and then tell me he’s full of it.
I look forward to your response.
Tony"
Cheers!
Tony
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Didnt you see him using the same bow penetrating mail and thick gambeson?
The mail was mostly likely cheap crappy stuff. Theres videos of war bows not penetrating thick gambeson with mail underneath. If an 80-150 lb war bow doesn’t penetrate real mail then his little toy bow of 30-40 lbs certainly wouldn’t even at full draw.
Alright. Fine. To be honest, I’m really bored by this, probably because I spent half of my life in an enviroment where literally thousands of people toyed around with historical archery. Some were good hobbysts, some were really good archers - and really serious one. Some of them did not gave too much about historical accuracy, some of them entitled almost their entire life for a few bone artefacts. One thing is common amongst them:
They had history, they did not have to “reinvent” things from absolute zero. …because archery is not a “lost art” It has it’s science, it has it’s conferences, it’s debates, it’s practicioners and believe it or not, but in some of our archery forums i have seen people working with the Mameluke Handbook in around 2007; probably before that. And that is the wide, public internet. But we aren’t the only one, many folks, including koreans, mongolians, chinese etc. actively practicing archery, some of them with a little exaggeration almost have a living tradition ever since their origins. Turkish nationalism also helped to spread the will to research their ancestral archery tradition.
Long story short:
We are talking about thousands (actually, ten thousands rather) of people and at least a hundred years, from locations spread out from China to England.
Either everyone is wrong…
…or you just fell for a very wise marketing video.
It’s up to you to decide.
But of course, you need sources. How should we do that? Shall I start with Saxton Pope, cite basically most of the historians, give you a link to the aforementioned nations archery associations, give you an invitation to 2015’s ‘Hail of Arrows’ at Ópusztaszer, give you an invitation to the next conference of the National Archery Association in Hatvan, or direct you to the english forums of the ‘Free Archery Portal’ where you can find guys who do mameluke archery - you know, in actual mameluke equipment, bow and arrows? It’s weird that you accept one YouTube-video, but you don’t another (this also has it’s flaws, may I add.) But even if I give you exact titles, it wouldn’t matter anyway, because…
“The scientific method is wonderful but it doesn’t always get built upon the way it’s supposed to. History has a way of disappearing certain parts of it” - Yes, like Atlantis.
See, the problem is, that a bow remains a bow, and a human remains a human - and, most importantly, physics remains physics. I have to admit, that with the fencing we are in a bit easier situation, because there is the possibility to go out and beat the crap out of the guy who apparently “invented” a “new way of fencing”, at least a little bit - since you don’t believe in “scientific methods”. You can’t just shoot at each other, of course.
But here’s a last thing.
Let us meet this fine gentleman. His name is Mónus József.
In 1226 a mongolian archer named Esunkhei shot his arrow to a distance of todays’ 502,5 meters. It is written, so it is true, right? It has a historical backing. Fine. József shot in march, 2010 to a distance of 508,74 meters.
At that point, we all can accept that our ancestors shot their arrows over 500 meters, József reinvented this method and everyone who can’t reach that does not shoot the proper, historical way.
…and this actually has more of a claim in itself, since what is the first thing that comes into your mind when you hear the word ‘bow’? Killing the guy as far as possible, right? By the way, József hit a 140x140 centimeters target from 453 meters in 2012. In a suspiciously similar way you could see it in the old mongolian video, may I add.
Too bad József is a dedicated distance shooter with fine tuned equipment to do so, and somehow does not feel the need to make an idiot out of everyone.
But that was the last time I wrote about that. This is really a minor thing compared to what a bunch of people believe in history.
As of me, I believe that archers shot like this. Ah, I don’t have historical source about this. …as a matter of fact, I kind of do.
I should probably make a YouTube video about it.
Edit: I felt the need to clarify: I think that Lars is a really fine, if not the best trick shooter (I don’t care if or if not his videos are edited in any way). Putting the “historical” before this on the other hand is like looking at an athlete who runs the 100 meters in 10 seconds and stating that “people were insanely fast in the past centuries in general.”, and since most of the people don’t have access to a bow AND they want to believe, they will eat it big time. Taking a great personal achievement, and selling it like a “forgotten art” - this not only ridicules many people and an insane amount of work, but even worse: fatally distorts the view on archery of the great public.
But then again, there are people who still think that each and every one of our ancestors fought with swords weighting 5-10 kilograms too. Well, feel free to do so.
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I have meet Lars a few times and know some of the people who helped him make the video.
(including the speaker)
Iam highly critical of many of the historical things that is said and some of it I simply don’t agree with.
But I have no doubt that Lars actually do the things we see him do. But naturally some of the things required many attempts.
Shooting an arrow our of the air was done in only four takes and they where rather surprised that he managed to do it. So luck was also a factor.
It is something I have seen him do with LARP arrows with no problem, but that is naturally a lot easier because of size and speed.
So I think he is great at trick shooting… but he is not an historian…
(he is actually a professional painter. And have painted some members of the Danish royal family and Anders Fogh Rasmussen who was Secretary General of NATO from 2009 to 2014)
Yeah that kinda makes your arguments irrelevant. You claim you are big on historical accuracy yet you defend this guy who makes bull shit claims constantly. So i can see you not wanting to go against your friends but you should stay out of this because you’re clearly being biased towards your friends here.
This guy wouldn’t last a minute against anyone with thick clothing because he doesn’t even pull the string back enough to hurt anyone. I also bet he wouldn’t be the “fastest” archer any more if he pulled the string back. His competitors are real archers who pull the string back and use real bows not toys.
Having meet him is not the same as him being a friend. He is not. Fare from it.
If anything It makes me more critical…
I don’t like this hole spectacle at all. And I do agree that most of his claims are not correct and I really don’t like the way the show is made. Lots of claims that is not backed up in any way…
He is claiming to be an expert on historical archery… and In my opinion he is not.
Many of the things he do can’t be done with a real bow… simple body mechanics.
But Iam rather sure they did not cheat with the tricks we see him do… since I have seen him do some impressive things with a bow IRL.
So to repeat myself. He is great at trick shooting. But not of proper historical work…
Don’t get me wrong what he does is very impressive but I think him not pulling the bow back all the way could be considered cheating. He claims he fires 3 arrows in under a second but he was pretty much just throwing the arrows at that point with how little the string went back. I would be far more impressed with him if he used a real bow and pulled the bow back all the way.
I think we are pretty much agreeing about all the problems with what he do in relation to “history”
My point was that “213” accused him of cheating with wires and digital editing… and I am sure they did not do so.
When we see him shoot an arrow out of the air, Iam sure he did so.