nah, third person takes a lot of resources from the programmers, first person doesn’t. Unless one of the programmers has a already programmed camera stuff for that engine, cool. But IT will take up time. Third person needs time to tweak, otherwise its just bad, first person the gap between bad and good isn’t that big =). But about resources…
it’s not that they are working with just their pledge goal, they have money to spare, a dude for a pan viewing the character or so.
I have my own opinion and ideas for the combat, but they won’t be that likeable, due to that people made me clear that this is more of a simulation than a game. So I’ll won’t complain about the combat, because it will never be what I want . (i think i just did)
I still would want to see a thrid person for oculus rift =).
And I think the post is ALIVE, because I constantly reply, to comments, unlike (apparently) most topic-starters?
I don’t get i, why 3rd person is considered anti-immersion. Look at the latest action-movie AAA games from last years. Tomb raider, uncharted 3, some stealth-action games that I don’t care about. All went for immersion, which they reach according to reviews and what i’ve seen. While being in 3rd person.
Tomb raider even came with their dynamic camera, looking like it was expensive to make.
But just, 3rd person just gives more explosions, earthquakes, grotesque immersion, instead of just the action stuff going around you.
Look at shooters, they constantly zoom in, when scoped, you are scoped, like first person, very limited view. But while just aiming or so. The camera comes closer to the character, almost putting the camera in profile, moving it to the left (or right).
Also some good camera work is last of us (or tomb raider …)
Yeah, feelings and tastes, I can’t compete with. Same as music, we can break down the note variants, the text depth or the use of certain techniques, and so on and so on. But if it comes down to someones taste, even the most rational arguments can’t change it. Which is another very, deep topic =)
Wait what? Are there games where you can scale down the models? And if so or not, is it special or just in options menu. Sounds cool, however, i wouldn’t touch it too much.
Hehehe, of course its the same FOV if you put the first person on the max FOV, which is around 100.
But the large FOV in first person causes more motion sickness, because its less “real” (i can’t talk for motion sickness, and you apparently also don’t have problems with it) I also put my FOV as high as possible. Some people consider it cheating which is somehow a bit true.
Yep in the witcher 2 the same, out of combat way less HUD. This is just ,because these days, they finally started to work on HUDs.
I think everyone understands. no?
The funny thing on this side, while talking about stealth, is that stealth staying sneaky is easier, less risky. But killing is harder, due to that they can still react/interact, from backstabs. (several discussions in one sentence)
Which is according to me way more fun, less chance, longer game, more interaction, more “health”. (I play as a tank (damage absorber, no damage dealer, no bruiser or berserker type) , and assassin types in games are a bit OP according to me)
According to my opinion and experience with Skyrim, when I use 1st person I get lost in combat when doing some quick movements and I am fighting against walls instead of enemies. When doing archery 1st person is essential. I understand different combat mechanics and looking forward to it so I try to get used to 1st view but only in KCD combat. When travelling, I strongly prefer 3rd person, because of the field of view and visibility of the valuable armour I achieved after hours of gaming :). When moving quickly in the city it is difficult to see the person that speaks to you in 1st person so that is confusing. In this I see no possibility for me to start prefering 1st person. So for me a possibility to change between these two modes is vital and preferred so I believe Warhorse Studios will change their mind and enable this.
Oculus Rift is very different chapter, where 1st person is the only solution. Of course, head movements should be separated.
Yeah this is where my personal play style comes in. I don’t play as a ranged character. So the quicker switching between aimed and just running around, the eagle vision (not AC eagle vision) type of gameplay is not for me.
I would still want to see a third person in oculus rift, it will probably just give you the 3rd effect. I’ll probably use skyrim for that. But like I also said, if you have multiple screens or oculus rift, than most problems of first person will be fixed, and then it won’t be bitchy about it.
Crysis 3 (and 2 methinks) allows you to specifically adjust weapon model scale, and it works quite well too. In other games, adjusting FOV also adjusts the gun models often enough, so I’m fine with that.
That’s actually a fairly interesting topic, and a far more complex than that as well. First of all, I personally have never had any problems with FOV, except that time when I was playing splitscreen Kane and Lynch - since it was horizontal split screen, FOV was EXTREMELY narrow and I felt sick. TP game as well. Weird. At any rate, when it comes to first person games, no FOV is the ‘right’ amount. Since the game is trying to fool the brain into thinking that it’s basically looking trough a window into 3d game world, motion sickness is largely dependent on your physical distance from the screen. When you are playing on your TV from a couch 1.5m away, wide FOV is going to feel weird as it’s natural for your view to be narrower that far from the ‘window’. Similarily, when you have your nose stuck in the screen, your FOV should be far wider as that is much more natural - you can see much more to the sides of the ‘window’. While it applies to 3rd person games as well, it’s not nearly as bad because your point of view is not tied as directly to the screen as in first person games
It’s their own bloody fault they can’t play with proper FOV
I can’t speak for motion sickness, never noticed it, but if it does make you sick, then it is a HUGE issue, to fix. Which will be a prominent problem in the future with the oculus rift, virtuix omni and so on.
Correct FOV is 60 or 90 (can’t remember) but the baseline is 60 for most games. Dunno who, when or what set that standard.
If everyone understood then there would be nobody demanding 3ps and argumenting that it’s just matter of personal preference.
I wouldn’t say so. Avoid single man or 2 mans in forest will be propably easier than figth them. But sneaking around in city or guarded camp is not usually easy and when you get discovered then it comes to figth. And you can’t efectively sneak with plate plate armor equipped. None of us tried to sneak or figth in game so this seems completely irrelevant.
60 is console standrad. And I think you can’t say this one or this one is correct.
How can seeing yourself from outside of your body be more immersive?
Is this an esoteric session?
To me this seems like a contradiction par excellence. It’s illogical.
I don’t think it’s necessary to point it out but to me, 1st-person delivers the most immersive experience.
Adjust FOV and/or use Oculus Rift.
Problem solved.
3rd-person takes the fun and realism away. In real life I don’t see myself from a camera angle behind my shoulder or even further away. Also, where is the need to see your character at any given time? I think, the player has other things to do than staring a the player model all the time. If I want to see myself I can bring up the inventory screen. In this game you can see your character also in dialogues and cutscenes with your customizations applied, it’s not pre-rendered (see thread), therefore the features and potential of the clothing system is not wasted (although it was mainly done to save work and therefore time because they have only a small team at Warhorse)
Another important point:
In Kingdom Come the combat system is designed for 1st-person. People seem to forget that when they’re demanding 3rd-person. It can’t just be switched, the controls and movement would be fucked up completely.
This means: it’s easier said than done!
Concluding, I have to say, I’m happy they went this way because otherwise I wouldn’t have pledged. I’ve played other 1st-person RPGs before, like Dark Messiah (one of my all time favorites), and I can’t stand this typical RPG 3rd-person view. I can’t relate to my character this way, there’s no connection or at least it isn’t that strong by far.[quote=“rilzi, post:41, topic:13408”]
there’s nothing quiet as immersion breaking as being able to move the camera to see around or over obstacles while your character is safely hidden
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This ^^
It’s like cheating, which is ultra lame btw.
(if you do cheat right away without playing through the game at least once)
Correct as in the sense of this is how we people have it in real life.
(personal taste and stealth)
The stealth things was the difference of 3rd en first person. (yes this is also a stealth topic now, =) ) In 3rd person stealth you can watch over walls and around corners, so its less risky to see the enemy, meaning you have it easier to stay in stealth. But in the case of third person, the enemies should also be like ‘third person players’. Where you have to be more tactical with your kills, because they will be able to react, so no fart breathing like in most games. Or you go in for the kill, or you stay several meters away from them. That’s stealth for me. (but I’m not a stealth player, because i never had to go real stealth, even in stealth games, i was able to just slaughter them with ease or do a barrel roll in front of them from cover to cover, so maybe its because i never had to do “stealth” or because I’m just a tank type of player)
Hehehe, that’s what I have been saying.
Real immersion cannot be reach.
And changing the FOV slider is only realistic if you have multiple screens.
So the essence of the discussion is actually, is that slight immersion of first person worth the gameplay sacrifices.
And for the customization, I just reference you to payday 2, they have a extreme mask customization. And its completely useless, if you just don’t see. I never spend anything on those mask, they are just for in lobby, while players don’t even notice it ingame.
PC standard FOV for first person games is 90 because it’s comfortable and realistic pick, giving you solid perripheral vision. ~60 is current industry standard (along with ridiculously huge weapon models, lower resolutions and 30FPS limit) to have as few things on display as humanly possible so devs push graphical fidelity on consoles as far as they can. ‘Correct’ FOV is whatever you feel comfortable with and as I was explaining earlier, it’s largely dependant on your distance from the screen. Just by the way, I play over 100 FOV on a single display.
Untrue. It’s nice when an option for 3rd person mode can be realistically implemented, but it’s definitely not something that should become standard. Yes, possibility of a person getting sick in FP games is higher than in TP games, but FOV sliders solve that for the most part as people can set whatever FOV they’re comfortable with, and the extreme minority of people who can’t play FP games despite that should just avoid FP games entirely - entire gaming community should never be forced to bend around a minority. It’s like demanding that every game should be designed for blind people.
Wut?
Slight? Playing in first and third person gives you an entirely different gameplay experience. If devs want to give us the experience of playing in first person foremost, they should give us that. While your arguments that third person perspective give you a lot of advantages are true, that is not the point - you won’t see enemies around you because you’re not supposed to see enemies around you, that’s how devs intended the game to be experienced, and it will significantly influence your playstyle. The game will most likely be designed around the idea that your vision is limited and that you have to make choices based on that.
Just as all the other cosmetics, it’s designed for the other players to see. And if they did not see the mask, devs would not bother implementing it, it’s just as simple as that. Not to mention that, surely, if you don’t care how do you look to the other players, you can just ignore the mask customization altogether.
Have something to add.
I’ve seen, in many comments, the need to have a real immersion, and I really understand you.
Anyway, I would probably enjoy to play int 1st person, even if I would leave the game quickly, cause I pledged to see historical armors in a fucking game, specially the one I would have build.
For those who want to “feel” like the fighter
You will never have the breathing troubles you could have under the helmet
You will never be tired as you could be by wearing an armor
You will never feel the pain due to the strike
You will never feel a strike coming
To my mind its just impossible to have a game reproducing the feeling of fighting and wearing and armor.
Remind, you, guys that this is a game, on a computer, and that would be only virtual.
I do not really reply to the topic, but that’s what all of your messages inspired me. You don’t want something as an option because its not the way you wanna play, but you do not care of a big part of the community that this game will be.
Personally, I do prefer first person view, because it is more realistic.
But sometimes I also like to see what I look like, especially when it is possible to choose your pieces of armour. And also to take some in-game pics… But it is juste a “more”…
Yes, IF you adjust FOV or have Oculus Rift - neither is a standard - the problem could be solved. Otherwise you have a hovering camera with feet and arms that - and here we talk about opinion, not facts, Cerberus - to me has nothing to do with actually feeling like the person I’m supposed to play, thus breaking the immersion. I - again, personally - then feel more like in a cage than in a body.
That’s why a 3rd person perspective is the better option in general for me. True, it’s more like an out-of-body experience, but I have a feeling of what’s going on around me closer to my natural perception than a ‘cage-view’ and I can see the effects the environment has on my character, which a digital model in FP can only do in a limited way - and again, that feels closer to my own perception.
But I get that those advantages can be minimal to others, while to me they are major. I’m just saying that there is supporting logic for both opinions - that is the reason why there is no ‘once and for all’ argument for one side or the other. Different people have different perceptions and taste. Here is yours:
