Again i dont so much mind the difficulty, though the learning curb is a bit steep for this system. As i said my real problem is that this system is in no way realistic. Which is one thing in a game like skyrim, but this game prides itself on realism and being historicly accurate, so this system makes absolutely no sense.
1 Like
thought 14th century bohemia had modern tumbler locks like shitrim and splintercell
love history
Obvousely didnt read any other comments. The tumbler system is just an example. If you actually read anything else you would see that i clearly explained why i used tumblers as an example for how a lockpicking system would work. Mainly it is due to the fact that lockpicks were not widely used in that time period. Skeleton keys and just prying things open where the two main methods of opening locks. This is mainly due to the fact that these methods worked for all types of locks, while lockpicks only worked for a select few.
Also the principle of lock picking applies no matter the type of lock. Lockpicking requires patiance and time, and uses sound a feel, the exact opposite of this current system.
Also jus because someone loves history does not suddenly mean they know ever detail. Someone can love history but not know what the names of the planes usedbin world war 1 are. Because that is the thing about history, there is far to much of it to know everything at one time. Which is why some of us continue to learn, and others contune to just be smug pricks and act like they know everything while never learning anything new.
2 Likes
Well, a reasonable job of the weapons. Many oddities stick out, like the fact you can destroy mail armour with your bare hands, wearing down its durability. Also, the bug or feature where you can make less noise by equipping 20 pounds of mail armour, simply by getting the padded armour trait.
Ya i know what you mean. But some things have to be given leaniancy for the sake of gameplay. For example since the game allows you to be a stealth character but yet still demands you participate in at least some type of open combat, it cant jus leave you with only regular cloths (what an actual assassins would be wearing). People in this time period tryibg to be sneaky didnt wear armour for obviouse reasons. But for the sake of gameplay they need you to have some type of armour that atill allows you to sneak around (although chain mail should be considered rather noisy).
Same goes for breaking things with your fists, ehile it tries to have a lot of realism it is still a game, and they still want you to have some freedom towards how you want to play. Technically if you are using your fists you would need some heavy metal gloves to try and do any damage to a full helmet, and for those without full helmets you could really only punch the face. But that kind of limits player choise and makes it so they could never really choose to be a fist fighter.
That being said there are definitely still things that make no sense, other than this lock picking system. Another great example is the inability to ask for directions. When i walk up and talk to a villager i should be able to ask things like, where is the balck smith, or where is the inn. All very common questions for a travelor to have, and yet we cant ask them. We also should be able to get odd jobs, such as helping out at a black smith, seeing as we do have some training in the field, and yet we cant, we can only take the select missions that people have for us.
There are definitely imporvements that can be made but a lot of stuff is at least close to realistic.
It’s not a gameplay consideration. It’s just a bug or a terrible idea, both for realism and gameplay. It removes Noise from stealth ENTIRELY, if you just equip a few items: Stuffed Armor: Magic Armor of Silence
Nor does punching metal armor destroying it serve any purpose. It just means you need to lug around several suits of armor, as it can easily get damaged beyond the point of repair for most repair kits, from just a dozen punches. The enemies never survive long enough for you to take advantage of this bizarre feature, so it’s only exists to be a tedious problem for the player. I’m not talking about damaging the player through the armor, I’m fine with that. I’m talking about plate armour being damaged beyond repair by someone punching you.
Interestingly, even when my armor was destroyed, at 0 durability, I was still nearly impossible for the bare-handed guy to kill me.
Merchants having no money at all is also a problem. I’m richer than every merchant in Talmberg and Skalitz at this point. I’ll have to install the mod where merchants have money. But then again, it’s possible that stealing has lead to me breaking a few of the quests in the game… so my gameplay choice as a thief who never gets caught due to careful planning may not have been an option (considering people sometimes discovered crimes I committed previously, the moment I loaded the game).
Asking for directions would be nice, yeah. They could’ve added some of those to villager dialogue, instead of having several voice actors repeat the same line about the merchant pond-keeper.
I could go into more points which are baffling, from gameplay and history viewpoints. Sorry for ranting about that.
No problem, and ya i get what you are saying for armour getting damages. Fists should do barely anything to things like plate armour, if anything at all (i suppose if you have metal gloves you could slightly dent the armour and that could count as a very tiny amount if damage, but they definitely shouldnt be able to break it).
Not to sure about the whole amount of money merchants have thing. I cnat say for sure but i would imaging merchants at the time wouldnt have huge sums on them because they didnt exactly have places like safes to keep their money in. A lot more of their money would be in the form of goods on their shelf, something that is harder to steal, and if stolen, can more easily be found on a person (also a lot harder to steal 10 swords than 100 coins).
The lack of gamblers is kind of annoying, and unrealistic. Gambling has always been very populr, so it makes no sense that it can be difficult to find someone to play dice with.
You also shpuld be able to do things like go into and open area and just practice swinging to gain some strength and skill with a weapon (live practice is good but not always becissary to get better). Same thing with bows, going off and shooting at a target for an hour or so should get you a little bettee, especially when you are new to it.
1 Like
And on that note, bartering should increase your speech skill, so you don’t have to talk to every villager and desperately work out tricks to say the maximum number of possible dialogue choices.
Ya i mena one of the best ways to increase your skills with talking to people should be haggling, because normally you need to be rather good at talking in order to get the best prices. I also realized that they completely ignored adding in martial arts. And before someone idiot posts “ha ha he thinks they had martial arts” the roman empire actually did have their own form of martial arts. Funny enough hand to hand fombat isnt exclusive to east asian countries. The closest modern form to the roman martial arts (i cant remeber te name for it) is i believe wrestling. It was taught to many of the higher ranking soldiers in the roman army, and its oarticular type focues more on using things like leverage to break and dislocate limbs, along with chock out and disarm an openent (there by allowing you to either capture or kill them). Though most wouldnt think of wrestling as a martial art, it actually can be classifed as such.
Adding in the ability to learn that type of marial art would have actually been pretty cool, and could have been an interesting wya for those that want to be unarmed, to be able to play the game. Armour may stop a punch, but you can still dislocate a persons arm through it.
I would really love it if this game actually continued to be added onto. But sadly that doesnt happen very often with fully released games.
1 Like
thats just it those old locks u didnt need much time nor patients to use picks to open it if you kno what your doin… and who said you have to go fast with this system cuz you dont… i can do it at a slow steady pace… everyone seems to be bitching about a system that A)works and B) can actually be a real way you pick a lock from 1400s… so your guys argument is invalid… now should they of added a skeleton key sure that wouldve been cool but again guess who did that already… oblivion… then everyone wouldve been bitching they stole the idea cuz that just what people like to do… bitch for no reason
Lovks only didnt require precision and time, when you were breaking them. Whcihas i said theu coukd have easily put in as an option, however jus as in real life that would make a lot of noise and alert people. In contrast you have the more stealth approach of skeelton keys. At whih point the game changes to figuring out which one to use. Skeelton keys arent as sinple as one fits all, this is why thieves would have an entire key ring of them for multiple types of locks. Skeleton keys are also harder to find, so you would have to essentially work your way towards a completely stealthy option. A system that is in no way a copy of games like oblivion.
Not to mention that you cant really claim someone is copying something from one particular game when it has been around in video games for an extremely long time. No one complained that oblivian stole the idea from older RPGs, so your idea that there would be a bunch of complaining is way over blown. Along with the fact that it is in no way copying since it would be a completely different system (oblivian dint have multiple skeleton keys).
As i said what they should have done is a mixed system hat has nothing to do with actually unlocking the chest/door. But rather has everything to do with how quietly you can open it (mesing up with skeleton keys can still be noisy). Along eith it being based on what method you will use to open the box. It would be a far more unique and accurate take on how thieves get into things.
Also yes the locks were worse than today (obviousely), but theu were not so bad that you could just stick the oick in, find one spot and just twist the lock as fast as possible. When using a knife to break the lock they were fast and easy, but this was very loud. When using a lockpick they still required time and patiance. No thief finds the sweet spot and then turns the thing as fast as possible. They turn it slowly, to ensure success. Just like they dont just flick the pick about until theyfind the correct spot. They carefully and slowly move it about, all while feeling and listening carefully. Locks abck then were cheap to break, but without the right skeleton key, they were not so easy to unlock silently.
Also once again, the game claoms o value realism and yet you have a magic pop up game, and are basically seeing through the lock. At the very least they could have made it so you are just looking at the lock and listening and feeling (maybe with a slight visual cue due to PC not having a way to feel) for the forrect point. Thenonce you have it, you slowly and carefully turn the lock. But no instead they want it to be fast, and you have an ungly mini game pop up.
1 Like
i dont think its that bad, again u dont have to go fast with the mini game, you CAN open a lock from the 1400s with two picks thats just a fact… so as far as realistic it is… you CAN do what they are showing in the game… could they of added more sure you can say that about any game but the lockpicking is one of the LAST things i want them worrying about when there are bugs that are way more of a problem… and AGAIN this guys whole argument he was bitching about a system that A)works B)you can actually use and do in real life… he was comparing splinter cell modern day locks to 1400s style locks… you people AGAIN at this point just bitch to bitch
like the archery tourny glitch, the visual glitches that fuck up how people look and buildings look, they sometimes turn a blue metallic color… or how about fucking up my saves where i load my last save and get a black screen, or NPCs walking backwards, there are tons of other shit WAY more important they need to work on then a system that is working a legit a way you can pick a lock from 14th century
First off as has been said multiple times, splinter cell was an example of how many companies have made far more reaslistic systems. It demonstrates that if you actually take the time to think about the system one can actually make a very good one.
You also obviousely need to look up locks from that time period again. While there were spring loaded locks which you could use a lockpick on, they were not very common. In fsct locks varied greatly because there wasnt any real standard for them back then. Which is why the two most common methods for opening lovks was either a) breaking them (loud but quick), or b) skeleton keys (which despite contrary belief you actually needed a few different types of these because of how the locks varied).
Once again if people actually read other comments you would see a perfectly valid and easy to make system which not only fits perfectly with the time period but also would be fairly easy to implement. It is a two part system that has more to do with how you go about getting the lock open rather than actually opening the lock. First off you can break the lock, this is fairly fast but can be very loud, so if you are trying to be sneaky it can back fire very fast. That being said the mini game that would come up for it would be all about trying to make as little sound as possible. The second part of the system is that as you get further in the game you will begin to find skeleton keys. However just as in real life they are not one size fits all. So now when you go up to a lot you must choose if you are first going to try out your skeleton keys and see if they work, or just break the lock. Trying out skeleton keys can take more time since it is very hard to tell which one will work (a perk could be added to make it so you can identify some markings on locks to help you out). Messing up with skeleton would still make a fair amount of noise but not as much as breaking the lock, but the real catch is that trying them out could waist your time if you dont have the right one, making more likely someone will come by and see you.
Such a system is far more like what thieves in that time period would do.
I also understand there are definitely other things they need to fix. But you cant just ignore one issue for the sake of another, especially when it is a rather core mechanic of the game. I never said they need to not fix issues like the save glitches, i am just putting one more thing on the list. Unlike you who is saying to ignore this. At this point many of you are just bitching about other people bitching for the sake of it.
1 Like
“the devs talk so much about how they want the game to be like real life” WRONG
The devs said they wanted the game to be like real life, BUT to also be like an RPG. You can’t just go around spreading such fallacious arguments.
They don’t have tumblers as medieval locks were not pin tumbler locks, they were warded locks.
These were then superseded by lever tumbler locks
Which now compete with (in the UK at least, though low security ones are used as interior locks and high security one .range from back doors to gun cabinets, as a secure lever tumbler lock (5 or more levers) is harder to pick or force than a pin tumbler lock) the pin tumbler lock, which only really became popular in the mid 20th century.
So there are no tumblers in the lock as pin tumbler locks weren’t invented then. There was the Egyptian lock design which is similar to a pin tumbler lock but they never became popular in medieval Europe.
From wikipedia:
"In 1805, the earliest patent for a double-acting pin tumbler lock — one where lifting the pins too much or too little prevented opening — was granted to American physician Abraham O. Stansbury in England."
And yet you are trying to make the far more rediculouse argument that a bad and unrealistic lock picking system is inteisic to an RPG. They said they wanted to make a realistic RPG, and the system is in no way realistic. While some unrealistic things can obviousely be let go for the sake of gameplay, making a better locking system is not one of them. Because having a better lockipick (or otherwise) system does not reduce is gameplay.
If yiu read other replies and comments you will see that i jaut used those tumbler systems as examples of the fact that you can make life like lockicking systems. As i have said many times, due to their being a huge variety f locks, locking was not very popular since it only worked well with certain types. Either breaking to lock or using skeleton keys was far more popular.
As i have also said before, a much better system would be one that has you tying to make as little noise as possible while breaking a lock, and then as you explore you find skeleton keys, so that you have an option to try out your skeleton keys first. However you still have to try and pick the right key, as you would in real life.
I dislike the current system too, I quickly scrolled through and saw that 80% of the posts were from someone shouting “git gud!” over and over and over.
Speaking honestly I would rather they fix graphical bugs, the destroying armour and other defensive clothing with bare fists, refine swordfighting combo mechanics and alter the save system so my PC isn’t a space heater until I go to a bed I can save in and quit (a single use checkpoint at “quit game” would do) and the ability to choose a difficulty setting need to be done first.
I understand what you were getting at, picnicking does require time and patience and I’ve only ever had one (real, tangible, hold it in my hand) lockpicks snap on me and that’s because it was from a cheap made in China set as well as the fact I was using it to very violently take a lock on which I used too much tension, since I was doing this with my front door (as I’d gotten bored with the assortment of locks sitting in the living room) to spend ten minutes using an extractor pick along with a whole lot of hoping that I hadn’t fucked the lock in my front door up.
So picks in-game shouldn’t snap like twigs and when you do snap one you have to remove the broken piece first.
I would like to see a system redesign, just not pin-tumbler locks as it would be massively anachronistic and immersion breaking, for me at least.
Skeleton keys sound good. You could also use a pick to throw the bolt by following the same “channel” as the real or remaining part.of a skeleton key would.
Ya i see what you mean. And i completely agree that there are definitely other things that not only need attention but should take priority. However i see nothing wrong with adding something closer to the end of the list. Devs should always be looking for ways to improve their game sand players should never stop giving potential suggestions just because other things are more important at the time.
I am by no means demanding this system be changed by the next patch, but it is something that i want to bring to their attention.
I also realized i should have made my original post more clear and should probably go back and add the potential new system tha i had briefly mentioned earlier. The tumbler systems are just the easiest and most common to find in video games so they make the best examples of good lockpick only systems, even though they are not the correct types of locks for this time period. Even games like skyrim use a lockpick system which is more about patiance, and only shows you the actual front of the lock.