100+ reasons why Dan Vavra hates TES V: Skyrim


If its that good It would have been ported. I believe what I want true and it’s that this game isn’t good enough.


Taking Gothic 3 as a reference point, there are a lot of interesting things about G3 but a good number of things wouldn’t translate well. The following are some examples:
-Combat consists of button mashing
-Skill trees are purchase from teacher dependent (instead of developing by doing)
-Fantasy is foundational (ogres, fantastical creatures, magic, contrived landmass of ecosystems, etc)
-There is no weight limit
-Losing an armed fight (eg multiple direct hits with massive battle axe) leaves character KO’ed and looted (instead of killed or jailed with wrecked gear)

KCD is trying to be a (quasi) historical and realistic RPG. To be informative as an RPG to emulate, the gameplay elements need to conceptually transfer. The above don’t


Sounds fucking awful!


It’s not awful. Some things G3 (as an example) does right are:
-no load zones
-skill tree better in some respects
-no respawns
-less funneling


You are a funny troll. How can someone think if a game is good it would get ported? In which world do you live?
And you haven’t even played Gothic, so be quiet.

And we are not talking about G3, which is no longer a true masterpiece like G1 & G2 are, but still one of the finest RPGs ever made in history. And I mean it’s A LOT better than Skyrim or Witcher 3.

But G1 & G2 are the ultimate experience. There is nothing what you could compare with it.


Watched G2 vid below. Very interesting for its time but a lot of text tree funneling.

Conceptual limits:
-crime mechanic is absent
-fantasy foundation (again)
-combat as button/key mashing
-equivalent (or easier) hit point restoration mechanic

I’m not trying to talk smack about your fav game(s). Just would appreciate a little more feedback that could be actionable for KCD and retain its core design intent (ie quasi historical/realistic medieval RPG)


So according to your logic, Skyrim isn’t even good?
So I ask this question back to you. What planet do YOU live on?


Skyrim is retarded piece of shit.


yeah actually just not before kcd came out


What do you mean “not before kcd came out”?


it was a good game!


It is a good game for people who have low standards. For ignorant people.

Many people actually don’t know why Skyrim suck, because they didn’t notice huge design flaws. Actually even Vavra didn’t mention this in that article, and he is experienced game designer.

Let me give you an example. In Skyrim first time you kill fake Emperor, then the guard stops you and you pay some small amount of gold, and you are free!? So, the real Emperor used a double to protect himself, because he knew that dark brotherhood want to kill him.

Ok, you killed fake Emperor which is the same as you tried to kill real one, and then you can get out of this by paying some small amount of gold?? I think it’s 1000 or 1500 septims?
This is one of the worst quest designs ever. You wan’t find this in the cheapest movies.

A this point every guard knows that you are member of the dark brotherhood, and that you have tried to kill an Emperor. But despite this you can enter Solitude and talk with guards like nothings happened?

Now, your task is to kill real Emperor, and you have advantage because everyone thinks that brotherhood is destroyed and all members are dead. This of course makes no sense because you are alive, and guards saw you. But the game does not care about this, it let’s you to do whatever you want to do?

At the end of this quest line the Emperor basically allows you to kill him just like that. You easily sneak into his cabin, because guards are relaxed which make no sense cause you are in the war territory and DB has already tried to kill an Emperor. You then confront the Emperor and he allows you to kill him just like that; no fight, no alarm?
And then after all of this you can join the Imperial Legion to fight for the Emperor, despite you are known assassin and DB member who killed the Emperor??

This is famous Bethesda video game design. And if you think that this is good, well then you have very low standards my friend.


Crime mechanic is absent?
Gothic has the best crime mechanics you ever see in a RPG! People react to you if you steel something, walking into their houses, sleep in their beds, or kill someone of their guild. Everything will cause consequences!

Fantasy foundation (again)
What do you mean with that? Gothic is more realistic than 99 % of all RPGs out there! And there’s a big difference between the Gothic fantasy and the Skyrim fantasy. There are no Elves, no Dwarves and other things like that! And the language is always rough, the world design organic!

Combat as button/key mashing?
I realize you never played Gothic. Gothic is the RPG with the best combat system. Everything makes sense, there is no key mashing, and when you learn more skills, you will notice how combat feels different, you even hold your weapon different.

Equivalent (or easier) hit point restoration mechanic
What do you mean?


You can watch vids of the player walking into strangers place and taking the stuff out of the chest without consequence. That’s stealing. Per the vid above, there appears little to nothing to contribute to KCD

Magic and imaginary creatures are fantasy. G2 and G3 are replete with them (iow, they constitute a core aspect of G gameplay). No elves? Ok, goblins and ogres! Of no value in redesigning KCD

The mechanic for swinging a weapon at enemy doesn’t involve anything better than KCD 5 star mechanic. The swinging attacks with swords against wolves (for example) is canned.

Engage in combat and suffer damage. Collect healing plants. Drink a potion. And, then heal almost instantaneously. It was fantasy when the Sumerians battled the Elamites in 2700 BCE. It’s still fantasy now.


Theres NO WAY I click on THIRD PARTY LINKS inside a Forum that may/may not LEAD to a Hackers Webpage, who can then “STEAL” all my SHIT on My PC! NEXT time you wanna make a point, put it in WRITING like all rest of us do?


So you’re worried about YouTube vids


Please stop trolling here. There is no reason to watch vids of the player stealing something out of a chest. I played the game and you don’t and here’s no one who knows better than me how Gothic works. And it’s a fact, no matter what you say, that Gothic was the inspiration for The Witcher 3 and Kingdom Come. Many people from CD-Projekt and Warhorse like the Gothic franchise and you see how they use it as an inspiration. There is a good reason for this decisions, because Gothic does EVERYTHING right about quest and world design. Other RPGs just fail in everything.


I’m not trolling. I watched the player walk into the farmer’s house. Open the farmer’s chest and take items out of it. That’s stealing. The wife was in the kitchen.

Inspiration? Watch King’s Quest ‘84 version and tell me it wasn’t an inspiration for RPGs

Back to more immediate point. If Gothic doesn’t offer a mechanic or game play option of use to KCD, it’s of no value in a discussion of how KCD could be made better

Relative to a realistic medieval RPG? Nonsense. Fantasy creatures and magic aren’t right. Mixing ecosystems together in one map isn’t right. Not allowing the user to determine strike technique isn’t right.


You have to understand the game and not just watching videos.

What do you mean with a mechanic or game play option of use to KCD?


Skill acquisition:
Gothic mechanic - pay NPC with learning points and gold to acquire skill
Why is finding and paying an instructor with learning points and gold the right way to build skill?
Why is skill acquisition a financial transaction that doesn’t require the passage of time for practice/apprenticeship?