1000 years of European borders change

Off-topic
#1

For all the history buffs among us (so I guess almost everyone here)… :stuck_out_tongue:

http://loiter.co/v/watch-as-1000years-of-european-boarders-change/

Note: Due to a video lag the actual borders are ~10 years behind the date shown in the video. The video also has a few flaws in a way that not always the official name of the respective country/state/alliance/empire is shown at every given time. But that’s an easy thing to add for everyone who knows about that stuff. And no, it’s not my work, I’m just sharing it. :wink:

5 Likes
#2

Not new to me but cool to look at every time. Germany looks like a crumb cake at times, and oh boy look at poor Poland. It would be even cooler if it you could see the context to every border change. Would be a lot of work to look it up yourself.

#3

Wow, thanks for sharing! I had never seen that video before, but it sure was fascinating.

#4

Thank you! Interesting tool. Something similar, there are 1000 B.C. to 1000 N.C. (unfortunately sometimes very incomplete). And clearly shows a) after 1200, it is very complex to build a historically correct play, almost impossible as a sandbox / open world and b) more playful liberties offer earlier epochs.
Thank you again!

#5

It is A.D. 1000, not 1000 N.C.

#6

@Jeannick - ah, o.k., thank you! Sorry, my english is not enough for complex Things

#7

Very nice (although judging from some comments there, it is not 100% accurate…and of course there is a time lag). I just wish it were about 3 times slower. This way you can look at one area at a time but it is impossible to keep track of everything during one view.

What I found most interesting was Poland. It seems to have had the most violent history of all the European countries. And the German lands are also fun to watch. And of course, the Golden Horde and Ottomans put up quite a show. No wonder Europeans were so scared of them. I also like the development in late Eastern Roman Empire (aka Byzantian Empire). My guess is that if it had not been for the (still powerful at the time) Eastern Rome to stop the conquest, a good deal of southern and eastern (or perhaps even central) Europe would have shared the fate of Spain - becoming an Arabian territory. But that is just a not very informed guess.

Also, you can easily see the end of feudalism and rise of absolutist monarchies and somewhat later the nation states (which was something uncommon before) and coalescence of smaller territories into large states.

#8

The main reason of a wiki’s existence is the enlightenment of it’s members.

#9

@Jeannick - I feel totally enlightened now … :slight_smile:
Again, thank you!

#10

@Trademark

Yes, the Polishs had a lot of fun. :frowning: I think it was partly due to the Scandinavian influenced Russian neighbor to the east, which were quite well organized and managed and have installed their own Catholicism And then Poland has always been immigration area (and emigration area), that is not homogeneous as a national community. Something can only be difficult to control and organize. Add to that, the deep religious faith, almost fanatically, that had to go wrong during the Reformation. Is clearly evident during the later Germans who were after the 30-year war for almost 200 years as a nation no longer present and were formed only in the aftermath of the French Revolution at a reasonably minded confederation. History is so exciting, explains much in the present time and young people is taught so incomplete and poorly …

#11

Well, my opinion is that it would have been better for Germans to stay separate in their respective lands (perhaps forming a confederation or something loose like that). I have lived in Germany now for a couple of months and it really does not strike me as one country. Bavaria is so much different from Niedersachsen (where I live), generally south is different from north and east is different from west. Bavaria is very much like West Bohemia, whereas Niedersachsen is almost like Netherlands or Denmark (not entirely of course). And you can see today that Bavaria is relatively close to separation (although not nearly as much as Scotland in Britain). While the rest of Germany seems to dislike Bavaria because of that. :smile:

I have always wondered why Polish are so fanatical catholics…but I guess they had to fight for even being able to be catholic (as opposed to orthodox or protestand) so much that they really hold it in great value.

1 Like
#12

Ahem, as a German native most of what you’ve said I declare wrong.

  1. Only very few people in Germany dislike Bavarians.
  2. Bavaria is not relatively close to separation.
  3. Cultural differences between German regions are minor issues. There are countries with much, much bigger issues and problems and even people with different languages and stuff…In Germany the cultural and social differences between southern Bavaria and Niedersachsen for example are of minor nature than the differences between people living in cities or in the countryside here.
  4. There are some differences between western Germany and eastern Germany but that’s a historical issue due to the existance of the DDR. But over the time the differences will more and more diminish.
  5. The bond between the German states is rather tight. There is (apart from a few people in Bavaria) not even a single group or state which wants to be separate.
#13

'm Also German, may give you both right. Culturally, there are already differences between the individual federal states, on the other hand it feel the majority of Germans as a welcome break and enjoy touristy the versatility of their homeland. Unsatisfactory is the theme of “financial load balancing”, a fiscal measure which is of course criticized by the donor countries. Obviously, if one examines the causes of the demand of the recipient countries more accurately. But this comes at the expense of the policy during the last 25 years. Overall, I think the Germans will feel quite comfortable in the current constellation. Of greater concern is their role within the EU and the constant attempts, to draw Germany into military operations abroad into it. The history here should help to maintain our neutrality, even if some of that does not fit.

Bin ja auch Deutscher, gebe euch beiden Recht. Kulturell gibt es schon Unterschiede zwischen den einzelnen Bundesländern, andererseits empfinden es die Mehrzahl der Deutschen als willkommene Abwechslung und genießen touristisch die Vielseitigkeit ihrer Heimat. Unbefriedigend ist das Thema “finanzieller Lastenausgleich”, ein fiskalpolitischer Akt, der von den Geberländern natürlich kritisiert wird. Verständlich, wenn man die Ursachen des Bedarfes der Nehmerländer genauer untersucht. Aber das geht zu Lasten der Politik während der vergangenen 25 Jahre. Insgesamt denke ich, die Deutschen fühlen sich ganz wohl in der derzeitigen Konstellation. Größere Sorge besteht in ihrer Rolle innerhalb der EU und den ständigen Versuchen, Deutschland in militärische Auslandseinsätze hinein zu ziehen. Die Geschichte
sollte hier helfen, unsere Neutralität zu wahren, auch wenn einigen dass nicht passt.

#14

As a German native most of what he said was exaggerated but has a true core. I live at the borders of Hesse, Thuringen and Bavaria and you only have to walk a few kilometers to meet a different culture. This is not only the border between prussian and south german cultures, but also the border between protestantism and catholicism. True, it’s not a big issue anymore, but you can still feel it. I’ve heard some slogans that are meant to teach children to stay away from “the others” and are usually passed on by elders. Sometimes stuff like “De roude san kai goude.” (“The prussians ain’t good people.”) is uttered out of amiable fun but isn’t it amazing how long stuff like that has survived?

Now the bavarians are a story of their own: For every common law that exists Bavaria has it’s exception. Bureaus that are called the same in every union state are called “Bavarian Bureau XY” in Bavaria, like they want to force a difference to the rest of Germany. Thats why I sometimes refer to them as seperatists, but it’s all out of fun - there are no real hostilities. It was a little different when I was young, I guess a lot of the hostilities died with the pre-war generation.

#15

That Loiter link looked more like 150 years - 1750 to 1900:
Britain and Ireland are unified - the earliest this could happen is 1707.
Until the 15th century, England owned significant parts of France.
Until the 13th century, most of Spain was under Moorish rule.
You can see the progress of the Peninsula War (1807-1814) about halfway through the video
You can also see the progress of the Franco-Prussian war (1870-1871) very close to the end.

This is the actual 1000 years video: http://vimeo.com/89394659

#16

I confess that I exaggerated it a little bit - partly to provoke a reaction from Germans :slight_smile: Still, if I mention I like Bavaria here in Göttingen, people often respond with rolling eyes and jokingly telling me not to mention it anywhere around :slight_smile: And that to a lot of Northern Germans, to be compared to Bavarians is an insult. I like Bavaria mainly because culturally (if you substract the mostly unfortunate second half of the 20th century) it is very close to Western Bohemia where I am from (no surprise there as there has always been a lot of interaction and the two lands have a large common border). However, here in Götting, I can see the culture is a bit different.
I am generally in favour of more smaller countries as opposed to fewer bigger countries (since it creates more variety and competition in between the states) and then northerners would not have to feel angry about Bavaria because “it does not want to pay its share” and so on. But of course, Germany is unlikely to separate in the next 30-40 years (I don’t feel confident about making any predictions about anything, especially politics, further than that) but if I knew one country were to separate from the Bundesrepublik, then I would bet all my money on Bavaria.

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