A different perspective with having Women in the game!

Sorry to start another thread on this but I just wanted a clean thread with a different perspective of including women in the game later down the road.

I really hope this will help everyone including the developer to see that the reasons too not have women in the game is just all bias. I read that to include women in the game would require a different story approach and require new actors and so on. Fallout 4 has the perspective of being female and male written into the story as well as Dishonored 2 coming out. So I do hope that everyone view can be changed and not say things like its not historically accurate, take too long for the animations, its a mans world there should not be any women.

If it really cost more to include women character perhaps later improvements could have then? But I just hope all this talk that women should not be in a guys historical game can be finally put to rest.

So thank you if you all have found this to has be insightful because hey don’t we all agree that if look through the game we could point out many things that are fiction? Even though the game wants to be an accurate representation of History? Yes there weren’t women signing up to take up sword fighting at the time but as i said they are other things you can spot out that just is fiction anyway. The game cannot be totally 100% accurate to real life or it be very boring. So there would be many things in the game that is fictional to give it excitement so player will keep playing it.

Was the game made because it wants to be a accurate simulation of English history at a specific time? Be like an educational historical software? Perhaps then it will be a good reason to leave out women as warriors. But the game is played not so players can learn English History but to enjoy what it is like to be in medieval times. Why do women have to be excluded from this enjoyment?

After all aren’t you partnering with star citizen and sharing knowledge? Star citizen have mentioned about your game in their articles because of your AI? So why not get along with them to also make it possible to allow women in your game?

Having Women does not mean that English history cannot be learnt and that players immersion will get ruined because they see women running around in armor and swords. It will just mean more sales and higher funding because you have attracted a huge slice of players that has been previously forgotten.

There are new modern FPS games coming out and writing off women players because it does not fit the history and it just will take too much time to do and so they want too concentrate on other things for the game. I think Ghost recon wildland will be one of the FPS game that will have the choice of a women pat agonist. There is also no hardcore medieval game that include women that is like Kingdom come. There is Life is Feudal but its different even though its hard core.

Perhaps someone need to show all the FPS developer having women brings lots of benefits to the game and it will be a success. There are already women in other popular modern games that is not just about fantasy and sci fi. And perhaps someone can do something different and show it can work and that guys and girls can share in the enjoyment. Then perhaps other FPS developer will follow and include women in their games just like how dishourned 2. If others can see how much success and benefits it can bring the bias understanding that women are not accurate can finally be forgotten.

Its unbelievable how many FPS developers have used the statement that its unrealistic for women to be in historical battle games. I hope Kingdom come can be different and prove to these other developer it does not have to be that way.

Why not think of women as a good feature to improve the game?
Because many years ago hardcore realism was also seen as dumb for games but there were developer who decided to prove everyone wrong. And well it was seen as very popular and players really enjoyed this type of game style and then other developer decided to do the same! Its only why Kingdom come has arrive because of the advancement of technology and what other games could do.

Have seen the farming simulator? Many years ago if it was suggested in a forum like this fans will have push it off, mock the Op and tell them to go to a real farm! Its like what is happening now with wanting women in the game. :frowning: it just mocked, no sees any benefit and that guy rules and dictate what should be in the game. But today there are many wanting to play games like the farming simulator even though it looks so boring! These types of games will not have happen if developer did not decided to test the theory and just do something different and new!

So don’t see women as its not historical or that women just are not strong enough, see women as a feature that can improve and bring many different things to the game. It can still be hardcore realism having women in the game and women can bring a whole new level of skills to the game that wasn’t there in the first place. So guys really are missing out on the fun of what it is like to play with a hardcore FPS women player. Players already know what its like fighting with guys in the trenches so why not have something different and let women come in and see how that will change the tactical battle on the ground?

Have you all forgotten the wives of King Henry IV?
They were not innocent submissive wives! They fought the King on certain issues and even won battles when the King failed! They were just as bloody and cruel as the King himself! Do you not know who Bloody Marry was? Look at the bloodshed and torture she spilled? They were very aggressive during those medival time. Actually everyone was!

Everyone had this fascination with death and torture! It was the culture at the time! Just like the Romans and their crosses and their bloody Colosseum. People wanted to see death and blood it was the entertainment at the time! Women were just as violent at the time even though they were not seen in the battlefields.

Just watching the videos on the game does not portray that the history is violent and bloody! If you want accurate history then chopping heads and hanging people need to also be included because this is as common as watching a video today in your homes. This is normality during these time and this is what you will see when you enter town. People would gather to watch these things! As i said its like watching action movies at home today! This is the same kind of entertainment that everyone went after during these times. The Saying is why people were so violent at the time?

They were violent so we could be more civilize however our violence has only just shifted cause we only have change how we see what is violent.

So to be Historically accurate you need to included these common violent entertainments in the game and not having it removes an important event of English history.

Do you still fantasy over medieval life just reading these things? I was in shocked and why I no longer want to play the game even if it has playable women characters. It reminds of the horrors of what you will face if you grew up during those times!

That is what happens when you want to try and recreate the History of the English Period as close as possible! It be no different to playing a game full of horror zombies aim for psychological fear! It really was like that during the medival time, it was not sweet, it was not innocent, there were no fantasy meadow to live your dream! it was a horror hardcore fear period.

Will the developer now change the atmosphere of the game?
So will the developer now change the atmospheric scene of the game because they too know it was very dark & violent? The game should make you very moody and depressed and give you a feeling of lost and death every where you go. I know its not something you want in the game but if you insist that the game be true to history then this is how the game should be experience. They are real horror games out there so I am not sure if the developer want to take it this far just so it is historically accurate.

But I am trying to help everyone see that having it always Historically accurate is not a good things for an enjoyable experience. It certainly is not a good thing for a medieval historical game unless it was meant to put fear and death to players. So the developer will have to leave out very important event and features from history just so the game is playable. Cause again i don’t think the backers wanted a game filled with torture and death and see that as a common primary thing players need to experience in the game!

So again I hope this will give some perspective that having women in Historical games is not such a far cry from reality compare too far more important things mention above that has been left out.

So I hope user will stop using the argument that it is not realistic because all hardcore medieval games are already unrealistic in many ways. Just reading the real records of History will show how much fiction there already is in these types of games.

Are women too hard to Animate?

Good Article to read

Adding female lead characters doubles the art budget

This is only true if the art budget is predicated on having one character, who is a man. In most other circumstances it would not magically cost more to make some of the characters female. It does not take more time to design and write a female character. Female actors do not cost more to employ. If you’re doing unique performance capture for, say, four different male characters, it would not cost more to do unique performance capture for three male characters and a female character. Or even two of each! Bear in mind, too, that the budget for characters is only a fraction of a whole art budget for a game.

Women don’t play RPGs/action adventures anyway so what does it matter?

This just straight-up isn’t true any more. Look at me, look at my colleagues, look at Twitter, look at the audience of major games websites, look at the many, many pieces of research that show that women are 50% of the gaming audience in total and more than 20% of even the most traditionally male-dominated genres, look at Bioware and the Mass Effect series, look at the ever-increasing number of people who read and share articles like Brenna’s, and tell me women don’t care about video games, or that female characters don’t matter to them (and plenty of men, too).

But it’s not realistic to have all these powerful women

OK. So it is realistic for, say, Cole MacGrath to run around shooting lighting bolts out of his hands, but if he were a woman that would be preposterous? Here’s what’s actually unrealistic: fiction in which more than half of the population of Earth simply isn’t present, or is only present in the background, as passive entities. That makes no sense.

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Ok first off, women are definetly in the game, and you will even be able to play as one in a quest. Second, the devs have stated they want to tell a story, from the perspective of Henry the blacksmith, who will be our MC. This is not Skyrim where you create a character from scratch, Henry is comparable to Geralt from the Witcher games, he has a set past, you cannot edit his looks, his gender ect.

The devs are trying to make this game as realistic as possible, and having a women fighting on the front lines (as Henry will be doing) is completely historically inaccurate for this location and time period.

This games main selling point is realisim, and historical accuracy it honestly seems like you did very little research on this game.

Again, it seems like you don’t know much about this game. It takes place in central Bohemia (modern day Czech republic). [quote=“Katha-MartinLuther, post:1, topic:29067”]
They were not innocent submissive wives! They fought the King on certain issues and even won battles when the King failed! They were just as bloody and cruel as the King himself! Do you not know who Bloody Marry was? Look at the bloodshed and torture she spilled? They were very aggressive during those medival time. Actually everyone was!
[/quote]

Did any of them fight on the frontlines? I sincerly doubt it.

You seem to repeat this a lot in your post, i don’t think people were any more violent back then, than they are today. The 20th century was by far the bloodiest time in recorded history, you seem to have this kind of hollywood image of the middle ages as being dark and extremely violent.

Anita Sarkeesianan is well known to be an outright liar and is completely uncredible, posting one of her videos is really no different then posting an onion article as proof of your claim[quote=“Katha-MartinLuther, post:1, topic:29067”]
Women don’t play RPGs/action adventures anyway so what does it matter?
[/quote]

That statistic is very misleading, and includes mobile gamers as well,most people dont count people who play angry birds as a gamer. [quote=“Katha-MartinLuther, post:1, topic:29067”]
But it’s not realistic to have all these powerful women
[/quote]

Again, you haven’t researched this game. It is aiming to be as realistic as possible for an RPG.

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Larian studios did a research amongst their players of Divinity: Original Sin. Its great RPG, with nice mechanics, and you can create any character you want, and woman is even in the preset of creation.
After the research, to their disappointment, they found out that 95% of their player base is male, 3% female and 2% unknown.
Statistics from Sarkeesian and other weird sources mix these real statistics with lot of mobile/browser games with some RPG elements (like leveling up when you plant a lot of flowers and shit), which really doesn´t tell us anything noteworthy.
I even recall Mass Effect statistics, with completely equal male/female positions - but only 18% female gamers.
And TombRaider, with ONLY female character is split about 70/30 for males (and no man ever complained about that game and its main protagonist).

Overall I don´t understand what are you trying to achieve here: This game will have women. It will have strong women. It will have playble women for certain amount of time (like in Max Payne 2). It will try to avoid those stereotypical cliches about women(although you can never avoid them, especially not in medieval game).
Games creators are all for equality - but natural equality, tolerating differences between genders. Not forced equality, like what you are trying to impose here.

And really, don´t watch Sarkeesian videos, they are so flawed its not even funny, it can totally fuck up your perspective.

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This games main selling point is realisim, and historical accuracy it honestly seems like you did very little research on this game.

I was trying to point out that excluding women just so you have historical accuracy is not reasonable as the game is not a historical simulation. There are many feature that tries to keep it accurate but my point again is that going for perfect realism can spoil the game because of how life was during those times.

I know there were not women in the battle field but that does mean they can’t be women on the battlefield because again as i said if you go through the game there are feature of fiction to keep the game interesting. Just like they would not be any decapitation of bloody body stakes to show off to the enemies. That feature that marks English history has been removed.

Even in a game like Kingdom come there it isn’t always 100% accurate and it does not need too be to show of English History. So your argument that the game is trying to be as realistic as possible does not add up at all because at the end of the day its a game to be enjoyed by both sexes not just for guys.

There is not a playable female character like you would get with Henry as he is the main patagonist in the game. I was even reading that the female character that can be played will act like an intro but the main story line will always be a guy.

Besides this type of game is more favour among guys then us girl since its all about battle but even then they are still alot of girls who like to play these types of games.

Did any of them fight on the frontlines? I sincerly doubt it.

Why would they need to fight in front lines when they are already chopping and tutoring people? Most are saying women should not be in battle because we are weak and its no place for women. But others are showing that women can be aggressive so why not allow us to also enjoy the game? I know it won’t happen tomorrow but if you can shift your view from saying its not historically accurate and come up with ways to include them with out getting so rigid about the details it will still be enjoyable.

i don’t think people were any more violent back then, than they are today. The 20th century was by far the bloodiest time in recorded history, you seem to have this kind of hollywood image of the middle ages as being dark and extremely violent

That is what literature explains to you on the life of someone living in medvial times! Just look at us living in our comfort western world all protected from the violence that happens in 3rd world country. Just look at the nice living and comfort we all have? That is all stripped from you in the days of medvial times and like i said before entertainment for torture and decapitation is something we don’t experience. But as i said this was a common culture practice of the day to show off and watch it happen!

If you live in those war zone countries and all you know is death and violence perhaps then you can see there is no differences. But we do not and we do not even experience what it is like anyway so I am not trying to exaggerate the situation. The World then was very different to how it is now like free speech!

Anita Sarkeesianan is well known to be an outright liar and is completely uncredible

That is not what other articles post about why women are not allowed in action FPS game as they say the same thing that its expensive to do, that is unrealistic to have women and other things.

That statistic is very misleading, and includes mobile gamers as well,most people dont count people who play angry birds as a gamer.

I read over what I posted and the comment are saying that women are not interested when in fact they are. Here is another stats that 66% of players who like FPS are guys compared to 34% of girls so that is why there are always more guys then girls for this type of game.

LATER EXPANSION NOT CURRENTLY
I am not asking that the developer change things how it is because its already in beta but later on with expansion to include female patagonist too. And not just a male lead because its a guys game and there were no women in the frontline anyway during those times.

A few modern FPS are making this point that women are not in the game because it is not historically accurate and i am trying to show that its good to have players have a lead women to play.

Its a game after all as I said so why not have both female and male on the battlefield? So we all can enjoy the game as the statistic shows that women also do play these types of games. If there was no debate about this there would be no women in any combat game because it would be seen as unrealistic.

What I am impose is a common request that can still keep the game realistic because its not about doing an exact simulation of English History.

Enjoy and have fun has always been the request while still keep many parts of the game realistic and I keep saying there hasn’t been a medieval game like KG that include female leads.

And since its a dominated guy game there will always be more guys playing the game but it won’t hurt the game if they also attract women to it? Just think about if it was the other way and you really wanted to play the game but it just was all women? That all the exciting games coming out are excluding men using the same arguments? Wouldn’t you speak out too because you really want to play the game and have a male character to relate too through out the main story?

If the medieval ages only had women in battle and men were submissive would you like that if that was our history? So its not a hard request to also want to be in the fun instead of saying sorry you cannot be equal to what guys are doing. This is what we impose and these are the rule that women should not be in the frontline. :frowning:

In reality i wouldn’t not debate this but its a game after all not an exact simulation and we all want to share the fun. :slight_smile: Women too like the experience of what it would be like fight with a sword so please don’t say its not for us so go away. :frowning:

Sorry but you can’t compare every aspect of the English history to Bohemian history. The game plays at 1403 in a part of the Kingdom of Bohemia and this Kingdom at this time was part of the Holy Roman Empire.
There will be comparable things. I guess the English peasant had ploughed the field in the same way as a Bohemian peasant.
But look at the warfare. English armys of this time were known for thier large contingents of longbow archers. You can’t expect a lot of longbow archers in a Bohemian army of this time.

You mention Marry I. Qeen of England.

First she reign about 150 years later in history and this can make a difference.

Second the law in England wasn’t the same as in the Holy Roman Empire and in the Kingdom of Bohemia.
As far as I remember, the law in the Holy Roman Empire at this time was that only a male blood relative could be a successor. I’m sure the historian Joanna Novak could say more about the differences.

I’m fine with female character as long as it fits into the given frame. But in my opinion you didn’t create a possible setting. In my opinion you haven’t to prove that a women had done the same as a man in this time period, but you have to prove that it could have been possible and why the fact wasn’t mentioned by a contemporary witness like in the case of Joan of Arc for example.

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Thanks for your post but please read what I said above that it does not too be 100% Historical representation to make it enjoyable. The Developer can be creative if they also wanted women to be a lead role! :slight_smile: No one would be complaining to get rid of this women lead role. :slight_smile:

You can allow some fiction in the game because there are already fictional mechanics in the game! :slight_smile:

Thanks for your answer but please don’t always mention English history.

So why not magic, dragons or undeads etc.?

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Perhaps you should read up on the game concept first before starting debate on this topic.

Perhaps you should read all previous topics that deal with this issue in depth.

Perhaps it would be a good start to realize that this game is not about English history.

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This game will be enjoyable. If you can´t handle playing as male character… well, don´t. Most guys also don´t have any issue playing as female characters, only important thing is, how is this characater written, voiced, and acted. (I for one, absolutely adore female sheppard from Mass Effect, such a great experience)

Also - we already paid for this game. And what we paid for was extremely historicaly accurate game from mediavel settings. We all understand, that 100% accuracy is neither possible, neither fun, but we want AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, thats the key. So why undermine this effort by including something, which was almost impossible back in the day?

And no one is saying its impossible in future games from this franchise, but it definitely won´t happen in this act, and it definitely won´t happen just to cater the needs of very few oversensitive people. If girls enjoy historical simulation, they will play this game nevertheless. If they don´t, they won´t play it even if the main character is girl. And if they really want very realistic mediavel experience, I don´t know how much fun would floor sweeping and laundry washing simulator…

And for the last case - if they want to play medieval like fantasy game and play as female character… well go ahead, there is like bazillion of them, don´t ruin this one.

PS. If you mention English history just one more time, I think I will break the keyboard from your ignorance…

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So Bohemia isn’t part of ancient England? :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

But seriously, for me this is a story-driven game that closely follows the adventures of a very specific character, much like a book or movie, and not like most open world games, where gender of the main character is mostly cosmetic. While I personally would not want to rule out the possibility of female lead, I do think this would basically require the implementation of a second plot. Reactions from NPCs would have to be different, some parts of the story, like the infiltration of the monestary, would not work out. And with the release already delayed, it’s simply not feasible to include all of this at this point of development. A simple change of model and texture (and name) for the main character would simply not satisfy anyone earnestly interested in the game and its story.

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No it is part of the Duchy of Luxembourg.

Not at all, the reason this request is impossible is because sex was extremely important in medieval times. Seriously… Very important. You listed a few examples of that, so I don’t know why you’d say it’s cosmetic.

Edit: My mind is stupid (not me though), so ignore this:I

Not adding much to the debate/comments here except, OMG! That was not so much a wall of text in OP, as it was a fekking skyscraper…

The KCD story is what it is, at least for chapter 1. They’ve decided not to have character customization at all, perhaps saving development resources/time/$$$ to work on other aspects of the game.

Is it disappointing? For me yes, but it won’t stop me from playing.

Read closely: I’ve said “this is […] not like most open world games, where gender […] is mostly cosmetic”. Gender does matter in the case of KC:D, and would the devs have chosen to have a female protagonist, the story would have been a completely different one.

Damn me. I’m so good at skipping words, and rearranging them in my head. I hope I don’t have mild dyslexia-____-

Is this real or satire? I honestly can’t tell, thumbs up OP if it’s trolling.

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I am wondering it myself. It looks like a perfect bait.

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So much time was put into it though… I feel like this is too much to be bait, it doesn’t seem like she’s trying to exaggerate a certain type of person.

It would seem that way but they obviously have very little understanding of the concepts of the game itself.

This smells of troll or tumblr ignorance.

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