Act 2+3 as a 'bolt on' and expansion of original map / game

Story & Setting
#1

This game has me excited, as an avid fan of Skyrim / Fallout, the ideal setting for a similar styled game for me would be a realistic Medieval setting without the magic as is being provided here.

At this stage i only really have a couple of woe’s…

Map size, the map / world is small, for me longevity and immersion into a world needs the scope for adventure and places new to keep it fresh and believable, even after 200hrs+. Could Act 2 and 3 not be an expansion of the original Act 1 map, thus providing new unseen lands and adventures while continually improving the size and scope of the game world!!
This would surely be appreciated by those that like to live in the world rather than just ‘winning’ the game. Thus Act 2+3 would be genuine expansions rather than separate ‘mini-games’.

Failing this, can the Dev team provide the most important tools of all, those that allow the expansion and population of an extended map…In games like this the initial content is almost of secondary importance to the ability to mod it…Skyrim was a good game only after 100+ mods, but is ultimately limited by more content being crammed into the same work space.

If you provide the tools for modders to create a larger canvas, then that blank canvas can be filled with Woods / land castles NPC’s etc. As a game is fresh and exciting up to the point it becomes to familiar. Size and scope go hand in hand.

#2

What you’re describing is actually going to happen if Act 2 and Act 3 is going to be released. The map of Act 1 is extended in Act 2 and yet again extended in Act 3.

Also: Skyrim has a very huge map, yet lots of “uninteresting” places. Also you’ll travel much slower in KCD and therefore need more time to explore the whole world.

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#3

Thats great to hear if they are going to enlarge on the original Act 1 map and add act 2+3 to it…makes sense.

Ref: Skyrim map and ‘uninteresting places’, depends on what random encounters can been had…I would love the idea of getting lost in a large forrest, and ‘living rough’ off the land, if both shelter building and indeed hunting requires some skill, and that certainly would not be uninteresting if random bandits and the possibility of highwayman style robbery was present, indeed such ability to break from the norm provide the immerse world imho.

I guess that brings me to my second woe…that being the game pushing you to “follow the yellow brick road”, I would dearly like a living breathing world to immerse myself in as i choose, but the vibe im getting, is leading me to think, this is very much a scripted / linear affair.

After all, its all very well, being able to go where you please, but if there is little to get involved in outside the main path, the world suddenly becomes very linear and less re playable.

#4

Where exactly did you get this vibe from?

#5

Why do people say the world is small? I mean in size it will be smaller then skyrim, gta v and other games these days yes. But think about how many places are you att in those games? With all the forest people just run through, the big mountains(specially in GTA V) you never go to etc. And the world size is going to be something around Red Dead Redemption and ‘‘can you see it, you can go there’’. And the world I like best from video games is the RDR world. And when I think about all the time I have spent in the Alpha in the small village we have now I really dont fear that this world is going to be to small…

How people use the Skyrim world:


:stuck_out_tongue:

#6

So 100 linear scripted quest lines are more enjoyable? Read the topic about the current “main quest” and how many different approaches exist to solve the quest, each with a different outcome / resolution. That’s what I was missing in Skyrim. Generally the quest was like “If you get me item A out of dungeon X, then I give you item B”. If there’s no real story to be told, then the quest is meaningless. Just getting a special item as a reward doesn’t thrill me. Although I don’t play WoW, I heard of a quest which rewards you with a cutscene and a song that can only be heard in this particular scene. This is meaningful for MMO standards.

The problem with big worlds is to fill them with something meaningful. Think of it that way: If you have an 8"x10" canvas and all you have to do is sketch a person within 10 minutes, you might be able to get some unique details of that person. Now in the same time try to achieve that on a 800"x1000" canvas.

#7

It’s probably not really a significant opinion, but I’d rather have a smaller area with - I don’t know - 15 hours of amazing gameplay, than having to walk across the Sahara with repetitive quests and long, boring travels for a 100 hours.

Also, I never really understood this “no game is good by today’s standards, but here comes some guy with his mod, where he rewrote two things in the game just because he could, and suddenly it is amazing”-attitude, from Rome 2 to Skyrim, you name it.
Especially for KCD - for God’s sake, the game isn’t even out yet, but we assume, that the mods will do justice for it! C’mon now!

#8

Fresh after 200+ hours? Skyrim after 100+ mods (lol the number) good game finally…
I imagine that bloom, lots of reflections, 100+ weapons (u need more, not better or smarter use), unrealistic lighting, trees up the ass everywhere, bluer water is what every game needs now.

Another thing to hate now, hopefuly not all people using mods have these amazing theories in their heads. Also un-fucking realistic visions for game that has 1/10 budget of skyrim “i want to do everything now, building shit, living in this simulator (which it is not) and have non-linear story with 10 endings”. Amazing.

Linear main story - yes. Its from history events that end certain way, not rewriting history here. Player is just a small part of it. Now, this is going to be hard to imagine to somebody that played already too many fetch-quests in games. Linear story line can have non-linear writing and many options how to get to the point of succes (lets say taking over castle - sneak in, charge front door, some inteligence based option). You’ll have to take the castle in the end for Main story to progress… but there is great variety how to do it based on character you created - already incredible task for people doing the game.

Side Quests and side story lines are not really based on exact events, so there will be room to have many different outcomes based on imagination of writers and limits of technology. Too bad this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6Q9PDLcfT0#t=1671 is only in czech language, main designers is explaining his idea of non-linear bigger quest of solving murder - Explanation takes ±33 minutes of that 1 bigger quest, that only, should show we are not talking only about awesome fetch-quests ala Dragon age Inqisiton (example of amazing 100+ hour goal gameplay).
Thing to mention, this quest is non-linear. So, even the quest is very complex (mostly behind the scenes in scripts, triggers, dialogues branching) and can be hour long, because it’s non-linear, you can solve it in 15 minutes and if it is a murder, you can even get wrong guy accused of it. Which might lead to wrong guy being executed (nothing new for that time) or you can have like 1 week to maybe find more evidence and reverse the desicion and get the correct guy.

I’ll take that thinking and approach over pointless space and prospect of modding - more is not better and just throwing shit into already existing game is not gonna make it better, if the game itself from the start is good and is created to be good and interesting on its own (we will know if they can do it all, when almost all features are in technical alpha, it they work, you can expect really amazing game).

I support modding when it comes to creating maybe different adventure. There was a topic related to Samurai culture in this realistic world and rules. New area created by community, new weaponry, quests and story based on that culture, etc - that’s great. Throwing more shit in with only purpose of having more shit in, not really interested.

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#9

this is highly significant , I tire of this mentality that a huge map means lots of fun and interesting things to do. I often joke about making a game that takes place in one room moderately sized, but the full focus is hyper-realism were talking about particle physics at the molecular level.

I love Skyrim, I have been playing TES games for 13 years so it carries allot of weight when I type this; KCD alpha is more in depth and living then the majority of Skyrim including the main holds.

I was elated to find out how big Skyrims map was going to be because Oblivion blew my mind in 2006, then after about 3hrs or running around in the wilds I was pissed there wasn’t anything out here that made it feel genuinely alive. it was fun and I still play the game from time to time, but the vibe I was always left with was "Oh Gee another painting to walk around in, with a few very bland “mini games” (most of the things in Skyrim didn’t involve any input other then initial interaction and the the rest of the event was an animation) I wont mention the quests no need writing a novel on the futility of running errands.

I was playing skyrim last night walking around thinking this looks like a model of city, its too clean and pristine its like a museum everything perfectly in its little place.

the most exciting thing about KCD for me so far is the quality of the mulch pit. If the quality of the Garbage is this high do i really need to make any more arguments?

I think this is going to be the most immersive RPG/game world made thus far.

@Poacher886 I would love to see you back this game, and maybe even try out the alpha itself. In any case I hope you continue to follow the game because this is going to meet more expectations of the “perfect game” then any other before it.

#10

Will there be random pop up quests when you riding on a horse? A pack of wolves attacks you or bandits, Cumans, save someone from drowning or from being eaten by a bear? Would be nice than a dull 10 minute ride on a horse.

#11

Not convinced by most of the reply’s here, I guess it comes down to what ‘type’ of player you are. Personally im not a power player, i play deliberately slowly…i use games like this as an escape to more interesting world of which i have interest.
For example, i’ve clocked up approx 500hrs on Skyrim, yet i’ve hardly touched the main plot, never seen a dragon and have only been in a few dungeons etc…i have however easily covered the entire map to the point of recognition from a single screen shot in most cases.

The 160 odd mods i have installed have changed this game exponentially, and allowed for so many hours of play. Frostfall mod enabled me to hit the woods, set up camp, go hunt, cook, etc etc, and rob (also modded) random bandit patrols. I can essentially live in the world as i choose and spend days just hunting / cooking, and like to spend at least 30min- 1hr or real time each night, reading books etc.

This is how i get immersed into a believable world, the quests i rarely take, but occasionally do to offer a purpose. Its the deliberately slow play style i take and the mods, is the reason im still getting joy from the game 500hrs in…

Skyrim is far from perfect, infact everything i see from KCD is superior to my mind,give me a realistic setting, especially medieval, the slower more realistic pace of combat, the ‘real looking’ scenery and indeed the need not to cram every inch with POI’s. Its potentially a dream game world for me to ‘exist in’.

However, all the points for continued Re-play and longevity of enjoyment in skyrim / fallout, are lacking in KCD and give me reason for concern. I dont agree with those that say a small immerse world is better than a large immerse world?, how can it be?, a larger world, means there is more surprise and places still unseen,just knowing there is more to see gives a nicer feeling to a game…who would argue the best part of any game is when you start,the honeymoon period, where all is fresh and new…and unseen!. Once familiar, repetitive creeps in and so does bordum.

I dont agree with those that say, walking / riding etc to a destination for ages is boring, indeed the idea of taking days to get to a destination, where i need to find somewhere to hole up for a night or two, feed myself, perhaps bypass a bandit patrol, IS the immerse part of a game, the act upon reaching destination and completing said scripted task has a anticlimax to it.

It was the same people who like to zip from one plot quest to the next quick sharp, who 30hrs after skyrim launched posted “Right, completed the game, now what is there to do”…!!!

Perhaps im wanting a different game to what KCD is, which is why im still on the fence.

#12

I have many many hours on Skyrim, where I do the same as you. With the survival mods, like frostfall and then hunt etc. And also build a house where I have alot of hunting suplies. And one of the mods is that you need to drink, sleep and eat. Which I use after I have completed the story that gives alot of more hours of gameplay.

But when you look att KCD the main differance is the world, which I dont want to discuss to much before we see more of it. I mean we have a small town in tech-alpha 0,2 so I wait to discuss that to we get more. But you will need to eat and drink in this game, and hunting will be a big part since you need meat and use other stuff from animals to crafting(I cant say much about that for sure since we dont know much about crafting yet…) And look att the forest in this game, its just so beatifull and perfect for hunting. So if the world is the same detailed as whats in the tech-alpha is allready I don’t think world size will be anyproblem. And also the map will be larger if ACT II and III comes.

And I guess you have seen alchemy in this game, and they said the goal is cooking to be in the same way, but cooking is more complex so have to see how they do it. So even in cooking after youre hunting there will be more to use time on then Skyrim. Since cooking in skyrim is have the ingrediants in the inventory and push E to make what you want, takes you 1sec and is not fun.

So for me I see no problem in KCD when it comes to longevity and re-play even before mods.

And they said sometime ago that it will be ‘‘very open’’ to moding, so for we just have to wait and see what mods there will be for the game.

#13

Naturally i have the eat / sleep / drink mod…is skyrim playable without such immersion??..I have no doubt that as mentioned KCD will exceed all before it in a believable ‘realistic’ medieval world…hell to my knowledge, there has never been a medieval world created in this format (skyrim mods of course have a go). This is why im here, this is why i want to be excited about this release.

Its apparent im arguing with two different camps…those that want to be given a story to get embroiled in, complete the story as prescribed, and come out 30+hrs later thinking that was excellent, i might have another go at the same.

And myself, that wants the world in which to create my own story to get embroiled in, and come out 300hrs+ later thinking that was great, now i fancy a change in character and a new story for myself.

Neither is right or wrong, but the later will most likely still be playing the same some years down the line…for this you need scope and for scope you need size…you just do.

#14

You say skyrims a good game then say you have to mod the living hell out of it to make it enjoyable. Thats a classic example of a terrible game saved by moders. This game is trying to shoot for realism unlike skyrim so im confused as to why you are “still on the fence”. As @McWonderBeast stated before this small village in the alpha has more life and feels way more immersive then skyrim does. You dont need a gigantic map for a game to feel immersive. One of the first things i did in skyrim was run around in the woods and i quickly got bored. The animals have the ai of a brain dead gold fish and its just copy and paste foliage for miles and miles around. For me fallout 3 did an excellent job with their map and made it feel more immersive and realistic than skyrim. Even though skyrims map is several times larger than fallout 3s it feels much smaller (at least to me. The animal ai in kingdom come from what they showed in the video and from the sheep in the alpha is ten times better than skyrims. They are also taking real world locations for the map in kingdom come so that should make every part of the map feel unique and different. If you just go running around in a forest everything will look different and diverse. I never saw that in skyrim i just saw the same things over and over again and that was a huge let down. As @Hellboy has said they want the map although small to feel packed full of content where skyrims map is huge and empty with little to do without mods. Im also really sick of everyone trying to compare every game coming out to skyrim like skyrims some master piece. Skyrim in my opinion is one of the worst RPG’s ever made its over rated and was completely over hyped. Its way to easy even on legendary and the ai is stagnent and is incredibly stupid. The combat is horrible and choppy the archery is way to easy and sneak you just crouch and turn invisible. There are many other problems with skyrim and even with 200+ mods installed i couldn’t ignore those problems. Underneath all those mods it was still just a piece of shit game.

1 Like
#15

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:14, topic:21344, full:true”]
You say skyrims a good game then say you have to mod the living hell out of it to make it enjoyable. Thats a classic example of a terrible game saved by moders.

I never said skyrim was a good game…i said skyrim with 100+ mods is…yet still far from perfect. Modders save ALL games imho which is why its so important…you can tailor the game to your liking!

This game is trying to shoot for realism unlike skyrim so im confused as to why you are “still on the fence”. As @McWonderBeast stated before this small village in the alpha has more life and feels way more immersive then skyrim does. You dont need a gigantic map for a game to feel immersive.

Agreed you dont need a large map for a game to feel immersive…but you do for it to still feel immersive after 300hrs+ !

One of the first things i did in skyrim was run around in the woods and i quickly got bored. The animals have the ai of a brain dead gold fish and its just copy and paste foliage for miles and miles around. For me fallout 3 did an excellent job with their map and made it feel more immersive and realistic than skyrim. Even though skyrims map is several times larger than fallout 3s it feels much smaller (at least to me.

I never run or indeed ride anywhere in Skyrim or fallout…the maps are just too small and would be covered in no time! i mean seriously opposing castles are within eye shot of each other, just ridiculous.Fallout was more convincing for the ‘type of game’…but once you have travelled the two main roads, you always find yourself travelling those same two roads…wilderness / waste land…where? neither games put you more than a few minutes of a safe place to sleep / eat / drink…and that world closes down so so quickly.

As @Hellboy has said they want the map although small to feel packed full of content where skyrims map is huge and empty with little to do without mods.

Could’nt agree less, Skyrims map is small and far to packed with content…see above ref castles!, if the KCD want appropriate landscape scaling and content, then they need size…real size, im talking 5x Skyrim just have a few castles, as for little to do without mods…totally agree, hence my continued emphasis on the importance of mods and access to!

#16

Well you’re in luck then this game will have full mod support.

Debatable i have over 1k hours in vanilla fallout 3 and its map is not very big. Its the content not the size that makes you play 300+ hours.

Some one found out how long it would take to travel from one corner of the map to the other when Kingdom come comes out its still a 20 minute horse ride which is decent walking will be much slower of course.

Well kingdom Come is based on real locations so the scaling i would assume would be real life scaling.

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