Combat Controls -- Chivalry Superior?

Combat system
#1

Hi Guys,

I think the combat controls are very important in how a game plays out, I really think Chivalry Medieval Warfare really has the simplest but effective controls. I fell in love with their controls so much I remapped Witcher 2 to be like it, and some other games. I hate the War of roses style where you click and drag because I think it feels to cumbersome.

Chivalry works as followed,

Left Click – Slash (Fast Attack)
Scroll up – Stab (Most reach)
Sroll down – Overhead (Strong Attack)
Right Click – Block
F – Kick (To Stagger Opponent)

I understand this game is more robust with the aiming reticle they have but I think this control scheme is very effective for melee combat.

Also I’m not too sure about the hold block and your character will Parry every blow, I’d rather see some more timing based and movement, but we will find out in the alpha.

Your thoughts?

1 Like
#2

I love the system in war of the roses, because it takes skill to master it and the combat just feels so dynamic. I like the combat system of Chivalry as well I think it’s quite good.

Edit: On further thought, I think it would be inappropriate to say if any combat system is superior to the one used in this game because it is something you have to try and try to master it first before saying anything about it.

Now the real significant thing behind the particular mechanics of this game is that every move is processed as physics and therefore it will be much more realistic it’s like a combat simulator.

#3

Yeah I agree,

We will see in alpha what they think will work for their model. I’m just enjoyed the combat of chivalry alot it even made sense for me to map out other games to a similar system.

Also just curious to see what combat systems do people like for melee games.

#4

I propose < enter > type name of attack< enter > that way you clearly recognise a KC player by how fast he can type :smiley:

also I think some very old games had style like that

#5

I like the chivalry controls, but I suggest an other system for deliverance:
First, Vavra says each weapon will have its own attacks, so maybe there are weapons without fast attack (like a hammer) or without strong attacks (rapier). So it’s better try to design either an attack system valid forall weapons, or a specific system for each weapon.
In any case, I think this type of operation must be taken into consideration:

The attacks depend on the angle you want to brandish your sword, that would be controlled with the mouse. Might swing by six different locations:

  • Vertical top-down
  • Attack horitzontal right
  • Attack horitzontal left
  • Diagonal attacks in bottom-up from the right
  • Diagonal attacks in bottom-up from the left
  • Lunge

If you put the mouse in one of this sections, you will brandish your weapon for this space.

PD: When watching the live demostration, at the end, when he fights with the boy, in the middle of the screen you can see a five-pointed star (similar to an asterisk *), each of the strokes could be one of the possible areas of attack, no?

#6

chivalry’s just another mount and blade hack and slash. real sword combat isn’t like that, please stop asking for that lousy system for this game. thanks

4 Likes
#7

Does anyone remember Die by the sword from the late 90’s? Im not suggesting it should be like that but in that game it really took time to master sword wielding and it did have a very big freedom in it (ie.: your mouse was your right hand and you moved and looked with the keyboard generally. Sword movement, speed, aim and strength of the blow were all based on your mouse movement - which sometimes lead to throwing it off the table acutally… :)) I am content with the concept they provided until now, can’t wait to try it out! I hope it will need irl skill and planning!

#8

The problem with chivalry, which if you spend enough time on is the amount of people complaining about left mouse button spamming. If you are dueling someone one on one and both taking it seriously then it is great fun. But from the livestream for Kingdom Come the parry system looked really interesting and I’m glad they are trying something new and realistic. Maybe in bigger battles we will see more freedom to wildly swing our weapons everywhere.

#9

They already have their own system so no need to bicker about other games with medieval combat.

That said I like the War of the Roses type of combat but there is always one weapon that’s kinda OP

#10

I’m sorry @Solidus I did not know that was defined system battles for PC, and I like this system, it’s better than my system jajajaja

#11

They are completely different control set ups…how would you like the controls to be? Personally the M&B/ WoR controls are best that I have seen so far.

1 Like
#12

I find the combat system in this game a bit worrying. On the one hand, it looks great in 1 on 1, sword vs sword dueling. But on the other, I worry that this system is too rigid to handle other weapons realistically and will look awkward in large group battles that should look more like a mosh pit than a bunch of individual duels. For example, when someone swings a warhammer or battleaxe at you, you’re less likely to try to parry it than you are to just get the hell out of the way.

That said, I’m sure they have something already done or planned to account for all this. Even in the worst case scenario, if they don’t, the sword dueling and RPG elements alone should make this game more than entertaining enough to hold my interest.

#13

They actually pointed out that 1 on 1 fighting is the core of the game since big battles will happen only a few times. I also think that fighting in a rigid formation limits some of your moves.

#14

Really? I like the big battles. In any case, @Astartes says: one vs one battles, with sword, are well designed, but for heavy weapons (axes and hammers) is not sufficiently well designed, or vavra not show all

#15

Agreed with controls opinion.

As for big MnB/Chivalry fan - controls looks clunky and toooo difficult even for experienced player.

So now in these tiny time gaps between enemy attacks you must perfectly control 5(!) sectors of the screen for blocks/hits with clunky mouse movements risking to lose orientation control when focus moves out from your enemy randomly. And the only help you have - tiny little crosshair that shows current active “sector”.

Firstly I suggest to make controls customizable. Or, at least, move block/parry from Q to RMB like it is in most of games - it will help a lot!

Second, pls allow to switch off focus on the enemy. I don’t know how it is for gamepad controls but for mouse+keyboard - it doesn’t help at all.

Third (continuing second) - removing focus (this weird sticking crosshair on the center of the enemy body) - will allow to put your blocks/hits in a more flexible way. Like it is in Chivalry for example - if you’re keeping enemy’s weapon in the center of the screen - you can block it. So it will be more easy to track real enemy’s weapon movement and not this weird tiny crosshair.

Hope it will help!

#16

well, if any game allows you to succesfully do reverse overhead swing while looking in the sky, I won´t ever like it (looking at you, Chivalry) :smiley:
I am currently quite satisfied with KCD controls. Of course remapping is necessary (and planned), but other than that it seems like quite a fun. I am just hoping that aiming for concrete body part will have more diverse effects than just performing combos, and block could be slightly rebalanced so permablock isn´t that good option (OR blocking should cost more stamina then attacking, so its not viable strategy).

Other than that… looking forward for the challenge of this combat system, there isn´t much games which can be really challenging and engaging in combat :slight_smile:

1 Like
#17

So do you play on mouse+kbrd or gamepad? Because I’m starting to think these difficulties came from gamepad-oriented controls. I think so because of hard coded focus on enemy and weapon-direction controls situable more for sticks and not for mouse.

I’m afraid in the end combat controls in a current state could become unusable for many mouse/keyboard players and force them to use gamepads even if they don’t want to…

#18

To tell the truth I tried both (K+M and Gamepad) and I still prefer K+M.
It is hard to say how the combat will look in the end, but I believe that it will get only better… for everyone.

2 Likes
#19

I really hope so because right now (alpha 0.5) i really don’t like the combate system, and this said from a man that though Oblivion or skyrim kind of fighting was way to simplified, to me the perfect sword fight system is a combo based one liked used in Severance - Blade of Darkness, i just love it, the perfect balance of difficulty and fun, a system hard to master (many combos and key combinations) but still fun to play when you are still starting.
I know realism is being used here but a game is a game and unless you are trying to make a sword fighting simulator, i’m predicting this will be one of the principal complaints on the game.

#20

I think the combat system in chivalry is unfinished they don’t take swing arc and momentum into consideration. Duels take as long as stamina holds on the loser. I like the way one can fight against multiple opponents with confidence. It’s still a pretty cool combat sys I just didn’t highlight the good things. (played it for 394 hours).
M&B on the other hand does not allow you to turn around and still make effective hits your sword, it would just get blocked on the people you hit, also if you charge your strikes with momentum for example with a horse with perfect timing your damage will rise into insane levels (as it should) and there are other examples but point of fact is that M&B’s combat system is much more complex than it might first appear.(played it for 2190 hours which isn’t much compared to others but I must say I played atleast 300 hrs on duel servers alone seeing the best players there are, and a lot more on siege servers). Side note: in Mount and Blade the combat is much more faster than in chiv take a look at chamber style counters in duels, it works pretty well. Every block makes my heart pound faster.(personal oppinion: this is the best combat sys to date)
WotR crappy game with slow combat… boring, nothing special, can’t win a duel under 30 min against someone who knows how to fight. (played it for 47 hours)

Overall I think a good combat system should cover (most important first):
1.fast/fluent combat with counters and tricks that are still blockable (for duels to finish fast for one) (in chivalry feints, if used right, aren’t blockable)
2.No lock on (as in KC currently).
3.a system of attacks and blocks that are easy to handle giving confidence to the player so he can engage multiple opponents without fear (talking of both Chivalry and M&B)
4.some physics, to be able to make greater and weaker attacks depending on speed and possibly weight on legs (latter is hard to implement so it’s not necessary but this is the last point anyway)
Played pre apha for 16 hours almost solely experiencing combat my experienc reflected on my opinion on good combat system:

  1. in KC bad combat layout forbids fluency
  2. not being able to use proper legwork (due to bad layout and lock on) so I’m unable to implement momentum to my swings not being able to see wether physics are there or not
    (the rest are obvious)
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