Combat "Discussion" - Dev Spotted


#1

I have yet to see how to reliably dodge or parry. Even in the tutorial at the soldier camp it is barely able to happen and that is when the AI is intentionally letting you do them. In actual combat with even a basic level fighter, parry’s and dodges are almost non existent no matter at what point in the animation the move / block commands are given. This needs a MASSIVE work-over.
Edit: I want to say thank you to everyone who has responded, as this has become what I suspect to be one of the main posts with contributions towards improving the melee combat. I didn’t expect this post to detonate but it did. At the time of this post’s writing, I had been using a jack of all trades character which greatly diminishes Henry’s combat abilities. I shudder to think of how the diplomat must fight. As such I recognize now that my initial complaints, while not invalid, are not as broken as I first thought. Please everyone continue to contribute, and I will soon gather up the crux of the various POVs in this initial post.


#2

What is Henry’s defense and sword skill when you try to evade? Probably next to nothing. As Henry’s skill improves, he’ll be able to react faster.


#3

Ok, so the tutorial doesn’t cover this at ALL then. It’s made to seem in the tutorial that if you do the right action at the right time then you’re move will occur. I don’t feel good about a mechanic that doesn’t give you any indication if you should even ATTEMPT anything like a parry or dodge.


#4

You can definitely dodge, block and also if you time it perfectly, and have superior skill to your opponent, be able to counter. When you start the beta you have a quest that tells you that you need to learn how to fight. It’s also obvious by looking at Henry’s skills that he is no master swordsman. In time though, with practice, he improves. The same is true of archery. Henry is terrible to begin with. Once his skill improves though, archery become a lot easier to use.


#5

in all honesty i think the combat system is pure crap. sorry i know they spent a lot of time to make it very realistic. And that is a good thing, but when you fight on the most easy setting and henry fails to block almost everything even though you clearly block in the right direction… on the fucking easiest settings you should be able to win easily. The combat system does not realy need a work over the combat is beautiful just the difficulty is insanely stupid. that is why i quit playing the alpha rather quickly and will probablly get tired of the beta a swell soon enough. It is a shame they made it that difficult. And they should create a much better training programme for the fighting. because if my own skills ‘‘suck’’ then the game did not train me enough. if you cant even defeat the training opponent even though you do everything according to what you learned in the training session then WTF is wrong?!?


#6

I agree. You try to simulate the fight. But thats immpossible (maybe VR) in games.
Make it more easy to control and better looking. You tried always to be immersive (visuell) not simulating (control).


#7

I hate to. But I have to agree.

I am one of those who love combat games and has played them ever since, but generally sucks at combat a LOT. I mean I’m even too dumb for M&B Warband on easiest settings against training dummies although I played that game for… can’t even remember how long. :smiley:

Anyway the point is: For people like the OPs and me, who love to fight but just suck at it “in RL” (poor reaction, panic-pressing-wrong-buttons, not wanting to waste half the playtime memorizing complicated combos and complex buttons, and so on) this game combat system is insanely frustrating. Sorry.

Just like the OPs, stats or not, I also haven’t been able to achieve just ANYthing combat wise. Okay I managed a few times to kill an armored guard to grab some loot but that was a) mostly after 20+ attempts and b) lucky win by just panic-slashing until, half dead, I somehow killed him. :smiley: But that was nowhere near skill or purposely used swings and parrys.

Long story short, I think what the OPs and I are saying is: We love your dedication for the combat system, the strong focus on absolute realism and support it, but we feel that you, in all that thinking for realism, forgot the casual gamer who sucks at combat and is simply not good enough for such a very, very complex combat system. I mean making a realistic system doesn’t mean it has to be a complex one, in terms of the way it works.

Just like anyone else I want to enjoy the game, steal, talk, fight, etc. but right now, fighting is really frustrating and hurting my fingers (seriously? blocking on Q? how the heck am I supposed to block and move to the left at the same time with the same finger??? lol. Almost broke my fingers trying during training. If I will eventually, I’m sueing you. :smiley: ) Thus, just like some OPs, I stopped playing the alpha really quick and after only a few hours, I’m already somewhat annoyed of the beta, lol. It’s a shame, really, it’s really, really a shame. Please hear us and think over maybe adding a “easy version for dummies” to switch to for idiots like us. :stuck_out_tongue:

Thank you, have a nice day, see you, byebye. :wink:


#8

VR will not make things easier. There are plenty of people that think the combat is too slow. There are also people that think it’s too hard. Before you decide that it’s terrible, or hard, level up Henry’s defense skill. You can’t expect him to float like a butterfly when he’s barely held a sword in anger before in his entire life. He’s not a super ninja that’s been training his whole life. He’s just a regular guy. That’s the whole point of the game.

It’s interesting that camiel mentioned difficulty settings, because there are none. If you mean the easiest soldier, then he shouldn’t be easy, because if he were, he shouldn’t be a soldier. I agree that there should be a difficulty setting for combat though, because it’s clear that some people are really struggling with it, while others find it too slow and clunky. A setting to make it easier for some and closer to real combat speeds for others would be a welcome addition.

Of course it is still beta, and there was mention of adding perks. Some of those will be combat related, perhaps making you hit harder and faster, or giving you a bonus to the timing of dodges, parries and counters.

I also 100% agree that we need to be able to remap the keys. That was promised for the final release, but it would be another very welcome addition for the beta.


#9

exactly mikey it is just to difficult for the casual gamers. altho i am pretty good at M&B wich doe not realy count because that combat system is way more simple i freaking suck at this combar system. They should implent a more easy version of combat press q in the right moment to parry (you dont have to pick the right direction) hold q to always block any attack from any direction but when your stamina runs out you cant block anymore etc.


#10

OH. THATS how Q works? I have to quickly press Q but also then block in the actual direction? Ohh. Well I thought and understood I just have to quickly press Q at the right time and I will automatically block.

Well that’s the least how I’d want it because I’m already too slow and dumb to time the Q pressing right. :smiley:
If I was in charge, the least the combat system would change now, would be that Q pressed any time or kept pressing will automatically block correctly, so at least I can’t die, no matter how bad I am at swinging blows myself :smiley:


#11

I think the problem begins earlier at the time, when you choose your attack direction. For me it is nearly impossible in Alpha to do a successfull combo, just because you have to choose the direction fast. Ive gone crazy with my mouse, cause I end up everytime in the opposite direction I want to choose.


#12

well i think that is how it works Mikey i am not even sure because they dont realy give you time to read stuff at the training. it is like ‘‘hey here is your new objective in training but your enemy will attack you now so you cant read it, goodluck!’’


#13

Yes, combat needs some serious work. It is a little confusing and slow. Confusing in that when I hold down Q to block, I sometimes am not sure the character is even “blocking” it just feels awkward. I found myself constantly looking at the mini star crosshair in combat, rather then my stamina and kept wondering why I could not strike (my stamina was out, but didn’t realize it).

Combat is also really slow, I understand you are going for “realism” here, but its a game, I don’t want to be in a sword fight with some guy for 20 minutes, that makes no sense. Is there a way to break off of the auto lock as well? If there is not, there needs to be, I do not want to be locked in place for so long, I want to be able to run around.

The way combat is now, there is no way people who own consoles will enjoy it and the game will not do well on consoles just because of that, I guarantee.


#14

Yeah I hear you, that’s my second major criticism about the system, that star is so fiddly and tiny, I just can’t manage to strategically swing the way I actually intend to, which is why a) I always end up just randomly slashing around to survive somehow and b) can’t ever get combos to work. It needs serious reworking.


#15

i think it’s pretty obvious that the blocking and dodging right now is bugged.

ps, to any devs reading, please for gods sakes don’t simplify the combat because of these complaints of frustration. i’m certain it stems from unreliable and broken features. it’s clear the the dodging and blocking is not working right now, don’t simplify ANYTHING because people confuse bugs for features.

thank you.


#16

i think the combat is working properly as how they wanted it, that is the thing they spent most time of into anything. i dont think it got bugs in it. It might need some finetunning but in a BETA i hardly doubt there are bug in this combat system. We dont ask simplify it but to add difficulty levels so EVERYONE can enjoy it from the hardcore player to the casual gamer to the noob game how never played a combat game before.


#17

I can only speak for the alpha not the beta as is still downloading on my slow internet, but i don’t agree it is atrocious, i do agree it is extremely hard to even pick up, and i don’t consider my self a casual gamer, so it does need more refinement.


#18

you’re right, not everything that everyone has described in this thread which has been frustrating them comes from the buggy unreliable dodge and block mechanism. but do understand that the game does not hold your hand, it thrusts you right into the world, and it is the player’s down responsibility to pick and choose his fights. if he’s not strong enough to block or have reserve stamina for a fight, he needs to level up. i see so many people running into fights with cumans of unknown skill level, while their stamina, strength, and general skills are at the bottom, and they expect to win vs multiple opponents that way.

the game requires a rethink on the player’s part. please don’t ask for the devs to turn this into another generic button mash “press q to win” type of game because that’s what the majority instinctually want without knowing how the game rpg system works or giving enough time to understand the combat system.

my only request here is to keep the combat as deep and realistic as it currently is, but maybe artificially boost the skill level in a patch for something, so it’s super high, therefore all the oblivion players can go charge and button mash their way to victory. i’m thinking they maybe did that with the “squire” playstyle option. try that maybe, bruh?


#19

I think it’s one of the worst combat systems I have ever played; and quite frankly I regret supporting the devs with this kind of combat system in place. I wish there was a way to get a refund because I’m not satisfied at all. The combat isn’t just ‘‘hardcore’’ it’s clunky and slow as hell. It WILL be the downfall of this game and if they keep it like this they’ll have 100 people playing this at max. I understand the level of realism that is needed for a medieval game like this. However, the combat isn’t realistic at all but just downright horrible. Mount & blade aced it almost 10 years ago. You should fix it devs. If you don’t, this game will be a disaster financially and it’ll be the end of the series. I’ll think twice before ever supporting you guys again.


#20

Well I am so far quite enjoying it :slight_smile: I just wish I could do combos more reliably, as I fail miserably most of the time, but hey, it will come with practice :slight_smile: