Fifteen hours into Hardcore and I'm ready to get my map markers on the compass back


#33

I think they are making the case that they are enjoining the aspect of hardcore mode, that is both challenging and fun, but this particular part, is just irritating, nothing else.


#34

@Sterling-Archer and @Kirksty
Ignore each other.
Every time you start a small discussion you make a mess here.
If you want you can take a break…(got it?)
Thank you


#35

To be fair Sterling tries to bait Kirksty a lot. So maybe it’s time for him to take that break.


#36

who are you :smiley:


#37

What??? Most of the conflictivity in this forum is caused by Kirksty, or he’s involved in any sort… Many of us are having troubles/getting tired of the same situation all over… Don’t you see a pattern?

He’s probably the same person with different accounts… :drooling_face:


#38

I was all up for Hardcore mode. Started a new game and was already immersed when I didn’t have my compass and location on the map. Then I get chased by the horse archers running from Skallitz, all of the sudden I had to go.

I just assumed that the game was saved at some point but turns out the new game I started, had disappeared. It never saved.

My point is that you should only really do Hardcore mode if you can guarantee that you don’t need to go suddenly.


#39

Not everyone can cope for sure.


#40

There is literally no difference between “learning the maps in previous playthroughs” and just reading a walkthrough based on someone else’s previous knowledge. Both are forms of metagaming, and metagaming is NOT something that should be accounted for as ‘normal player behavior’. Metagaming is frowned upon in every role playing game, because it defeats the entire point of role playing.

This game is completely playable in hardcore mode for a first-time playthrough except the exploration aspect, because it literally turns exploration into random chance. If you don’t use a map like this, you will NEVER find 90% of the exploration points in the game, because you can literally walk five feet away from one and you’ll never know it. Even WITH that map guide, it’s nothing but frustration trying to find a specific point. The actual in-game distance to when a compass marker appears is literally about two meters, at most. Those POIs with baskets full of booze don’t even reveal the POI until you’re actually within looting distance of the basket.

Which raises the question of why they even bothered with a compass in hardcore mode in the first place.

You admitted that you have to rely on metagame knowledge to play the game, and yet you’re here bitching about how I’m just too stupid to play the game properly? Why, because I don’t think I should have to either have played the entire game two or three times and memorized all the locations in ‘normal’ mode to be able to find stuff in ‘hardcore’ mode? Or because I don’t think I should have to be constantly alt-tabbing to a map with all the locations just to find something, because you literally won’t even reveal a bird’s nest location if you’re walking on the wrong side of the path?

By your own admission, you yourself can’t even hack it in hardcore mode without your metagame knowledge from playing normal mode. And you dare accuse me of not being good enough to play the game? The way I see it, I’m doing better at this than you, because I never played normal mode beyond a few hours.

Precisely. Every aspect of hardcore mode enhances the experience except this one. It turns exploration into literal random chance. If you don’t metagame, then you will NEVER find 90% of the locations in the game. This “feature” directly harms the game and adds nothing of value. Like I asked before - if we changed the compass map marker radius from two meters to ten meters, it would help considerably. Is that eight meter difference going to somehow ruin the game? If it was ten meters to begin with, would all these people defending the mechanic be in here complaining about how it’s “too easy” to find locations? Probably not, they’d probably accept it as a design decision with some thought behind it.

A larger map marker ‘bubble’ isn’t going to take away the “being lost in the woods” aspect, it’s just going to let you actually explore the wilderness without having to metagame. Metagaming is bad and shouldn’t be encouraged.


#41

But why do you need to find all these locations in the first place? The treasure maps are all perfectly easy to use to navigate - most of these locations have a little path leading to them anyway, and anything else is supposed to be about random chance anyway. Henry is not going around the world thinking, “My sixth sense is telling me that there is a grave somewhere deep in these woods with lots of cool stuff buried in it.” If he finds such grave, cool, but if he doesn’t, he won’t miss it.


#42

Hey there, just wanted to add my grain of salt… Hope I will not being bashed to… well anyway.

I’ve played the game before hardcore got out, not my fault, well yes it is, but eh. Thing is I’ve learn the map and some of the things in the game just by playing, without really thinking about remembering it because, well because I’ve learn ? Thing is, I’ve started a new game in hardcore and was super eager to try all the new feature and mostly the without compass and waypoint thing, because that was advertised.

Thing is, yes I know the general map and some of the poi somewhere in my mind, not my fault I’ve played the game before. As much as I would want to experience the game for the first time and explore the wolrd, I can’t. I can’t forget everything in the game, at least I’ve did not explore every aspect of the game in my previous playthought so I can still explore some part of it.

If you, dear reader, have remarked the word “explore” was emphases, it’s because for me, what’s the most important is the exploration. One thing that I’ve tried to refrain me doing in my first playthought was to turn the game from an exploration game, to a fetch the next marker game. I did literally pass beside some superb landmark, encounter, or event POI by cutting in deep in the wood with my eye stick on the marker in the compass. Anyway.

Yes the “reveal the marker zone” is quite small, I did not experiment on the distance required to reveal it, but yeah about 2 meter seem somewhat right. But, I can see with my eye over 2 meter. It’s called exploration, you have to explore the game to find what you need, of course you’ll not find it in 30 second. Maybe 1h ? Maybe 5 min if you’re lucky. That’s what make the game. I mean you can see the bird nest in the tree on the other side of the road without “seeing” it with your compass. You can see the chest half hided in the ground if you stop 30 sec and look carefully. As for exploring the deed wooded area, it’s all about exploring slowly one part of the time until you know the forest by heart. Oh and yes it’s gonna be long, that why this feature is there, it to make the game longer.

Oh oh ! I’ve just remembered an anecdote ! You can pass this if you want as it’s not part of my point, but maybe to give an inside of how I feel. I remember in my first playthought I had to search for something, I don’t remember the specyfic object but it was for the accident of the cathedral, a skull I think. But thing is, the game did not gave me the exact marker, and instead game me the zone marker. Great, a bit of exploring I’ve said ! I’ve searched for like an hour or so until I’ve quit the game before I was angry of not finding it. Few day later I’ve returned playing the game with a peaceful mind and I could not find it again, so… yes… I’ve cheated and did go search on the internet… Eh I’m not perfect I admit it. Still… I can still say that the game was too easy. Now of course I was satisfy at the exact moment, but now… I’m sad I’ve passed beside a great challenge. So now the no compass point is like yeah, it force me to really explore the game (at least what I’ve not already found in previous playthought).

So thing is hardcore mode is, well yes for hardcore, making the game more difficult, less forgiving, and part of it is having to search literally for hours for one thing. And eh, it’s even written in the game itself : “More realistic. Recommended for players who are familiar with the essentials of combat and survival in the world of Kingdom Come: Deliverance.”. For me, exploring getting to know your barring and finding stuff is what make a “real” (for video game anyway) survival experience.

By the way I’ve complained before in another post (few month ago) about how the game is to easy and wanted to have a more challenging game, like not having marker and compass at all. (Will search for it after this comment: How to make KCD actually feel more realistic) I’ve suggested even more hardcore thing that I still wish in the game, but I know it would not be for everyone. I want my ass be beaten my way out. Even if I feel that the combat is more challenging now in hardcore I still found some way of beating everyone with a bit more patience than before…

The last bit could be a bit harsh, I’m sorry, but if the game actually is not enjoyable for you, dear reader, well… no one is forcing you to play. I mean, not go away and don’t try to make a better game for you. I know some of my wishlist I will try to mod it when mod will be officially supported to make my game. But sometime, a game is just not enough at our taste, and sadly, the last option we left is to say, well, maybe another game will. I know I’ve stopped playing some game because it wasn’t hardcore enough.


#43

exactly mate. they can play another game with an easier learning curve


#44

I’m navigating in the wilderness without major problems. Yes, sometimes I have no clue where I am but in common case it is ok. Even if I have to find a grave or something I’m using sun direction and reference points like trees, buildings, stones, bridges, turns etc. I don’t get your point because I realy can’t understamd what is your problem.

Oh, well, I’ve just found something interesting about your… hm sickness? Sorry, no offense, but some people have a troubles with navigating.
Topographagnosia


#45

He reckons learning the map is cheatting. i mean what the actual…


#46

Generally working without a map marker is fine for me. There are a few occasions when you are moved automatically by the game - which doesn’t cause as much of a problem as it could have.
Plenty of visual clues as well as the sun and stars working as they should!
It is good that the map stays zoomed in and scrolled to where you left it.
I love the extra immersion brought about by the lack of “fast(!) Travel” and not having your position marked.
I do agree that tracking down a grave or similar that you have just “discovered” is something of a pain and that there are elements of the game that seem to be frustrating just for the sake of it.
Anyway, good luck.
A bit off-topic, but since were talking “Hardcore”, the “tis a scratch” trophy does not appear to be working (version 1.6 ps4)… I just wish I’d read that before my last playthrough!


#47

That’s why the Neanderthals died out.


#48

I played around in gimp. This restores all the markers and NSEW, spaces out the status icons on the bottom like they were with a bar.


#49

My personal experience with Hardcore was not so frustrating for me though I do admit having just “north” on your compass would have helped a lot. I did notice the compass sort of still work and the bigger lines on it still represent north, west, east and south and you can use that as long as you properly know witch way one of the directions are and if you stop at like a road crossing or some buildings one can usually determine pretty well which line on the compass represent which direction and this really helps finding stuff at least during day time. During the nights and in the woods properly knowing which way was where was almost hopeless so I stooped trying and went to sleep somewhere till morning instead soon enough. Quite a realistic outcome actually.
Don’t run around alone in the woods at night if you wanna try find something that might not have big obvious for miles landmark just on top of it. :stuck_out_tongue:


#50

I still don’t find it really difficult, I’ve always had a good sense of direction. The longest I spent looking for something was at night and took me like 10-15 minutes… If you start running aimlessly in the woods then yes you are not going to find what you are looking for, but if you are careful and are aware of your surroundings then no its not difficult.


#51

Have you played the game before though? I started brand new on hardcore last night and while I have been okay exploring I can see where the OP is coming from. I don’t know where any of the landmarks are yet so I’ve been keeping to paths otherwise I’ll most likely get lost. I feel as though a compass wouldn’t break the hardcore nature of the mode.


#52

I played the day it came out to March, and picked it back up after the DLC came out. When I started back up I knew the rattay area no problem, but had to learn the rest. At first I thought it was going to be challenging but after a few hours it just got easier and easier. The map is detailed and as you start coming across interesting sights, graves etc. it gets fairly easy to navigate using them as a reference even deep in the woods. I don’t go looking for the landmarks, I just come across them and use them to my advantage. As for what he is talking about the markers not being discovered when near them I have not had that issue and I am not sure what he is talking about. It’s not hard to run up to say a building or woodland garden etc. and discover it within 5 seconds. That has to be the last thing I would complain about.