Get Reenactors on board

Story & Setting
#1

I suggest Warhorse requests help and advice of historical reenactor clubs around about open questions for their settings and thinks twice about listening to the general broad opinion of the community.

When asking game mechanics and gameplay fun questions: please listen to the community, I am sure there will be great input and ideas.
When asking about setting and historical details: please ask people who do research on this as their hobby and main work.

You wouldn’t believe how much nonsense people are talking about medieval times, even some autors writing books about it.

some highlights:

  • there were no horses in the middle ages, they came from america (guest on a medieval market)
  • one can’t do manual work while wearing a bruche [sort of medieval underpants] because it’s hard to move (author of a book about medieval cloathing (WTF!!!))
  • authentic medieval meal - with ketchup and baked potatoes (“medieval” restaurant)
  • “man these guys are ugly…” “that’s what it was like in that times…” (ok, this one is a funny one, old couple on a medieval market)
  • “but these are dangerous…!” (guest on a medieval market after about 10 minutes of explaining all kinds of different arms)
  • drinking horns were the common used drinking device in (middle)european middle age (the common medieval market visitor)
  • arrows make a sound when flying (hollywood legend - only some do when specially prepared, most almost make no sound, the bow however does a bit) (sweet photo: little girl holding her ears watching some archers about to shoot :D)
  • fire arrows burn while flying (hollywood legend - yes they do, but only when using gasoline for cool effects)
  • you can’t move in fighting plate armour (nonesense, with a plate fight armour you can do pretty much all kind of movement, however there are tournament armours that are not that flexible, they probably weren’t used at real fights)
  • two longswords are the best weapon combination maybe besides of the “two handed” gasslhauer. the longer the better (the average fantasy pc game player)
  • swords are pretty heavy (the conan the barbarian wannabe)
  • “is this a real fire, uncle?” “no, that’s just a hologram…” (I’m really not sure if this was meant as a joke…really…also considering the next one)
  • you’ve done that nice! one doesn’t see any cables at all! (guy after looking closely and going all around a field forge…)
  • “mum, is this hair real?” “don’t know…let me check” (girl and mum shortly before pulling a girl reenactors hair quite strong - she had luck that this was so supprising for her that she couldn’t react. If she did there may have been a broken nose or something comparable…)
  • chastity belts (rennaisance romantic myth)
  • iron maidens (rennaisance romantic myth)
  • jus primae noctis (no myth but probably not so much executed how some teenagers think)
  • swords were sharp (some were, depends on time. but the sword is a hitting and stinging weapon, not a cutting weapon like a katana or scimitar, completely different weapon types)
  • swords make a metallic ziiing sound when being pulled…out of leather scabbards… (hollywood myth - sometimes they even make sounds when someone is just looking at it…)
  • etc. etc. etc.

however KC: D is clearly a game and should be fun, no question and the fun shouldn’t get smaller by making it super realistic, but there is also no need to build in modern world and hollywood nonsense if it has no game fun advantage.

so my wish: ask people who have long years of education and self experience about the topic if there are questions.

for all the fantasy stuff I’m sure there will be awesome mods for the people who want it.

what do the others in the community think?

PS: the title may be misleading - I’m sure reputable reenactors will answer questions for free, I’m not talking about getting reenactors as employees for Warhorse.

PPS: sorry for bad english, no native speaker…

1 Like
#2

I beg your pardon for answering (for you may know most of those comments’ content already) , but I strongly felt the need of commenting your quotes…

  • haha, heard that, too. :smiley: Did have a great laugh at them.^^
  • Nice to see, when some author-like people care for the quality of their writings, this one did not…^^ A bruche is a so darn comfortable panty-thing, I really can’t believe they worked it into that strange (boxer)shorts-thing nowadays. I actually wear my bruche on sommer days. You should try it, too! (Well, your own bruche, that is… - not mine O.o) :smiley:
  • Aye, that potatoe-nonsense is…strange…but I guess it is a kind-of compromiss for their smaller guests (=children)
    “man these guys are ugly…” “that’s what it was like in that times…” (ok, this one is a funny one, old couple on a medieval market)
  • Weapons, after all, are dangerous. Aye, after 10 minutes explaining he maybe got to the first of many conclusion (and stay stuck on it for the rest of his visit and/or life…). But, I agree if you meant, that some people are quite an expert in non-listening, and some should be even given back their childhood teddies for some extra cuddling…
    :fallen_leaf:
  • That actually might strongly depend on the “mass of ressource” (=horn) in the actual region. Though I tend to agree, that this is rather some kind of “Want-to-be-manlier-than-thou”-myth. Meself prefers an earthen/clay mug, as far as some kind of table is delivered. If it come to non-table-business I indeed prefer my horn, for I have a nice one, that is able to lie on the ground without being spilled - at least if not filled to rim. Also, such horn is a beautiful decoration. :smiley:
  • special arrow heads do produce sounds. And I quite like them… We even tried to make some strange music with them by varying the howling sound (quite modern types that were). Great fun, indeed. :smiley:
  • As far as I remember the first of those full-metal-jackets (coughs) were pretty much uncomfortable. Also quite… bulky and cumbrous. Were improved, indeed. But if you are not used to such armour types, it does rather hinder you instead of protecting you (= my experience, might differ for others). So, for this one special quote, it might depend on the context you’ve taken it out.
  • Since I’ve seen a (real, not virtual) ““two handed” gasslhauer” beeing taken out by a dagger-wielding flurry of … erm… daggers…I just … well I was just stunned by that, apart from disliking that “stone-written” laws of some games even more. So, aye, sometimes it doesn’t depend on length, but skill, talent …and pure luck. :wink: We have a saying over here, that could be translated like: At least ‘Luck’ is nothing but a w…onderful woman… :wink: (coughs even more)
  • Swords are heavy. I bet you know that little test-thingy: just take a water-filled bottle, stick it out with you arm fully stretched out. And then… hold it. As long as you can. Without any training you’ll be down in some 2-3 minutes. And it’s ‘only’ a water-filled bottle. :smile: But I guess, you know that.^^
  • Ah-hahahha :smiley: Had this one too! We were cooking some fine 'shroomic meal. When even an adult came along, watching us for a while and then, shyly came near, watching again, then again after a while finally asked “is that a real fire there?”… We couldn’t help us with looking at him in disbelieve and then almost bursting with laughter… Ahh, that beautiful moments…'Twas like a running joke the whole rest of the weekend…
  • Nice one, that guy did… :smiley: (For real, it was a wireless forge, am I right? One of those fancy things with GPS and stuff, aye?)
  • cute child, dumb mum… :smiley: I like children asking questions. It’s msotly funny and it keeps your thinking apparatus running. It is sooo much different from answering adults’ questions…[quote=“doommaker, post:1, topic:15949”]
    swords were sharp (some were, depends on time. but the sword is a hitting and stinging weapon, not a cutting weapon like a katana or scimitar, completely different weapon types)
    [/quote]
  • They were sharp. But mostly at top fifth of the sword’s length. But, aye, completely different to Asian swords.

Well, aye, finishing here, but thank you for digging up some almost lost memories. I mean it! :slight_smile:

#3

So, now, for the actual content^^
I’m pretty certain about Warhorse having at least some people of wisedom and knowledge about those topics at hand. If not in their studio, they know where/how to reach them. (Forums etc.)
There also have been some games, where they (their devs) had a pretty nice attempt on the medieval fighting aspect, but Alas!, they were listening too much to their ever growing community. Consequence: the core of earlier community was very much frustated with the path the devs chose. The game felt more and more arcade-ish and ‘disbalanced’ between thoughtful, honest fighters (or even duellants) and simple-minded hack-and-slay bananas. 'twas nonetheless a sad decline to watch and experience.

I may guess, msot of your concerns are … how to put this… “unnecessary”? “pointless”? (Without the negative aspect of senseless) - I mean, I guess your concernc are to no avail…(meh, sounds evil, too… but I do hope you got the point I tried to express…>.>)
What I heard and read of KC: D they will try to make it as realistic as it gets and makes sense. But I don’t know if their ressources are fit enough for e.g. thinking of how to hit with a sword to really hurt s.o. badly or even hit with the “flat top” for nonlethal hits.
Otherwise it may be possible to make a move like hitting with the guard (the thing that protects your sword-hand), but again I cannot guarantee anything… =/

Dummit, I’m writing novels again… so full stop here.

#4

good to hear others also experience that stuff :slight_smile:
@wearing a bruche: not at home, but regulary on medieval fairs - full agree, besides of lack of pockets for some situations medieval cloathing is much better as modern one, at least for colder temperatures… and bruche and gugel are the best anyway…I’m glad gugel comes modern again recently at least for “alternative” modern cloathing.
@sword sharp: yea, didn’t want to go into detail that much
@sword heavy: depends on ones training :wink: - 1.5-1.8 kg for a 13th cent. sword is ok. yea, the 14-15th cent. long swords are a bit heavier and for them you’re right, but they have different wielding techniques too of course
@horn - fair enough, you might also try a leather drinking bottle (with wax insided to make it waterproof) - I have once seen one with a leather ring on the bottom so it doesn’t fall down when put on the ground, however I don’t know if there is a historical soure for this design. I also already saw an original about 10-15 liter leather jug - thought to be from ~16th cent. if you are very thirsty :wink: (for serving of course)

however - back to topic and Kingdom Come :slight_smile:

EDIT: just read - got the point :slight_smile:

#5

Don’t worry: in his latest blog post Dan said that he will read the forums “religiously” and listen to the fans who seem to have a great knowledge about the time. And Warhorse already works together with a real historian. So far I know and what I’ve seen so far they are on a pretty good route concerning a realistic display of late medieval Bohemia. :slight_smile:

#6

Ah, I did want that… but kinda too expensive back in those days… An (at least I think) you don’t need historical sources for every frickin’ detail… I saw an elder man almost going crazy when he found out his “main source of authenticity” was mostly fake material of much later ages. For some details, well, I say, just common sense is needed. No one can tell you that in middle ages there was no sense of improvising. If you have a problem and an easy solution at head ( and maybe also authentic looking material, in best cases) why not using it? If a leather ring makes a bottle stay upright, so damn you Gravity!^^

#7

obey gravity, it’s a law! :smiley:

you have to be careful with improvising - of course it is possible but with time the own quality limits get more and more exact - things like the leather ring: of course. But one has to be carefull with that going on more and more ending up in some doubtfull conclusions.
@ too expensive: make it on your own, I’ve made one, worked perfectly fine.
you just need a good cut, some cow leather (cow worked for me), an awl, hemp string (e.g. parcel strings :wink: ) and wax
oh, and sand. and two blunt needles.
pull hemp string through melted wax so you have waxed string, cut the leather, make the sewing holes with the awl, (best to sew two parallel lines about half a centimeter apart) sew it together from both sides against each other (like sewing shoe soles), then wet it completely through with water and fill it up with fine sand so you get the form you want and then put it into an oven at about 80-90°C until it is hard (but not too long for if it gets too hard it will break).
then you poor out the sand as good as possible and fill in some hot bee wax and shake it a bit so the wax covers all of the insides.
then just add a bottle top and you’re done. depending on your speed you might have it ready in 2-3 days, maybe even faster.

but this also might explain why the ones you saw were so expensive :slight_smile:
just look that the bottleneck is long enough (if it’s too short then it will tend to “spit” liquid when carried) and try to make the top part where the bottle top fits nice and round (maybe with inlay) so it is sealed.

I’m talking too much off topic, do I? ^^

#8

I was going to say I thought they where working with historians, oddly they found one or two exsperts via the forum apparently.

As a re-enactor I’d have to say that even amongst my group there are thise whom are in it for the history, we have a couple of people currently doing a history degree (which I myself hope to do once I am finachaly able) others are in it for the fighting etc. and others are in it purly for the enjoyment of getting away from modern life for a weekend.

There are disagreements bewteen re-enactors over small details, for example this weekend I was at Warwick Castle with my group, we had finished tea and where discussing what to do with what was left.

It was decided that we could keep the meat dish for lunch as it was authentic, but not the couscous; to which one of the history degree students piped up that it was traded then so technicaly we could keep it, only for someone else to point out that it would have been far too exspensive for anyone in England to have purchased…even though we use ‘fancy’ spices and food like ginger and cinamon, raisens, sugar and almonds etc.

That’s the trouble with this period so much was lost or just not recorded alots down to people filling in the gaps.

We have had some interesting questions/cpmments posed to us by the public.

  1. "Is that a real/ authentic fire? : - “Yes it’s real but it’s not authentic because it in a grate and not a pit in the ground.”

  2. “Why are you using the toilet, I though you where being authentic?!” :- “Go check out the authentic hole in the floor next to the kitchen, one I don’t think the castle owners would be happy, and two we don’t want to catch authentic dysantry.”

  3. “Why are you eating nole food, you are poor, you should be eating Pottage!” :- “Yes that’s true, but we do this for a hobby and you try eating the same thing for three meals a day for four days, we are here to enjoy ourselves as well as entertain you.”

After four days of watching parents let their kids climb all over out cannon, touch it even lick it in one or two cases, or try to shove a wooden ball down it form the toy box, we gave up warning the idiotic ones to wash thier hands immeadiatly and just let them find out gunpowders a laxative in their own time.

#9

The team is quite knowledgeable on the subject as they have showed time and again. Besides they are based in Prague and history is all around them. So far they seem to have based most of their research on peer reviewed articles and books published on JSTOR.

I completely trust them with handling this correctly.

#10

that’s good to hear :sunny:

It’s also not that I don’t trust them having done good stuff in the past - the game wouldn’t look like that if they wouldn’t. It’s just that with broader public and bigger community things usually start to form differently so that a minor part begins to shout louder for some bulls*** than the bigger part of the more mature community really wants. As long as Warhorse proceeds like they’ve done until now I don’t see issues (for my personal opinion that of course counts nothing)

It’s just that the most positive things on this kind of development, the community, also has some downsides (see Star Citizen, but they are also handling it very good and keep up their initial plans with quality > release date - for Warhorse it’s even more critical for it is as well quality > releasedate as filtering out historically correctness vs. fun gameplay against common misinformation)

#11

So… :wink:

[quote]Daniel Vavra ‏@DanielVavra
We visited biggest medieval battle in Bohemia again
https://flic.kr/s/aHsjXDjvQH[/quote]

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Damn, I wish I could have been there as well. These photographs are damn awesome! :slight_smile:

#12

That would have been fun to document in photos.

#13

To be honest, the battle is “quite innacurate” because it allows people from 10th to 15th century to fight :slight_smile: So this time it was Vikings against knights :slight_smile:

#14

Yeah, it looks like that…

But fun nevertheless. And hopefully inspirational… :wink:

#15

Wow at least people are taking hist and falling.

One of my fellow re-eactors wascomplaining at the weekend on how in many battles he had been in as an archer, non of the bill line/men ‘take hits/ drop’ when they archers have fired a volly.

They all just want to fight and so are unwiling to play dead for a few mins until they are picked up in the midst of the line (so the public don’t notice and apparently it’s what happened when my ex was par of the US civil war abd Viking groups.)

That peeves me off as it’s just a child like attitued and it spoiles the battle for those watching, again those re-enactors who have been attending as members of the public at certain battles, have said how bad it looks that non of the boll/combat fighters go down at a staggered rate all through a half hour/hour long battle…only for people to suddenly start dropping like flys in the last few mins, it looks crap.

Apparently if the organisers where to try and do anything about it people thow/would thow paddies and refuse to attented, sure it’s a hobby and people want to fight, but I think many also forget they are there to put on a show too.

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