How to make KCD actually feel more realistic


#62

Selling potions, game and loot should have a limit… if for no other reason than reducing the number of assets that have to be stored/handled by the game.

wish the next game or a DLC (pipedream) would enforce the sentiment evident in the following:

Steven Proctor (“French Pricelist,” http://www.maisonstclaire.org/resources/pricelist/pricelist.html, accessed 22 February 2012) indicates that a warhorse cost 75 livres tournois in 1360, a squire’s mount 28 livres tournois. The horse Machaut received from Charles of Navarre was probably closer to the latter. He further estimates that a minor lord would earn about 500 livres parisis per year, which using the official 4:5 rate cited in Spufford translates to about 400 livres tournois or francs.

Warhorse Jenda would then roughly translate to a cost of ~20% of what a minor lord would earn in a year. Peebles, Pie, and the lower level horses less than 10%.


#63

Best thing would be, Wear a class of medieval clothes every day. Now you’re real in the KCD world.^^

But i agree! These things are the most annoying things for me.

I dont understand… you want a black screen at eating?

More invented to give player a reminder. Maybe this should be more a thought of but it sounds henry is making a talk with himself^^

Will never be added!

I guess was planned but removed with the possibility of fights on horseback

Would give player more immersion. I agree!

Not directly, but more points for resting would be nice^^
For example in the little shack between Sasau and Samopesch


#64

Yeah I agree, or an option in your inventory to check your armor out. Kind of a photo mode.
Actually, come to think of it: Watching in a mirror to check how your armor looks, instead of talking to random people to see it


#65

One thing to keep in mind: many of the things a lot of us would like to see for “realism” purposes would conflict with Warhorse’s obvious desire for the player to experience a very specific and pre-defined narrative. I’m not judging that one way or another, but it is true.

ADDIT: Re: the Inventory to check how you look . . . I got a better idea: just give us the gosh dang 3rd person camera! It is quite obvious all the visual assets are there, they just don’t have that camera programmed into the game.

If they feel it “reduces realism” well let me tell “them:” that is very, VERY poorly informed.

I have a Ph.D. in psychological anthropology and I have published peer-reviewed papers in Computers and Human behavior and I’m here to tell anyone who questions it: a first person camera–particularly one with a ridiculously narrow field of view–does NOT better or more acrurately reflect a simulation of limited human perception than a moderated 3rd person camera.

I can understand restricting camera to a generous 80 or 85 wide first-person for combat, but restricting the whole damn game to it is like spending years crafting the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel and then forcing people to view it through a peephole.

Someone at Warhorse obviously understands what I’m talking about, given that the cinematics and the conversations are offered to us in various 3rd person or free-flight camera modes. NOT! in a first-person perspective.

It is painfully bad design decision. I hate to say that, but it is true.


#66

Come on there’s a more fundamental epistemological problem with ‘realism’ than that

Can’t cite source but remember ‘hearing’ it was due to physics (engine) and not a questionable view of end user visual perception


#67

I think you dont need a analysis of that.
It is simple, first they need to remove the restrictions to the console/debug. It would be very helpful because i want to use console a lot more and the TPV on Horseback Mod.
And then the integration of tpv camera and ready/done/finished. But the whole controls layout needs a change or an update when you get on your horse.
Actually it isn’t possible to fight against someone if you want free roam in controlling Henry.

And without proof, it’s nothing but empty words from WH!
I like the Ansel integration but it is restricted to player model too.
And a photo mode or cutscenes aren’t good to make a heroic screenshot.


#68

Knew that’d get a rise out of you. Think just comes down to WH making a decision to support some functionality and not others (eg mounted NPCs, bathing/mending services in Pribyslavitz) … and then move on


#69

This didnt changed that this are all empty words for me. No proof = Lairs
WH cuts the features, WH cuts the world, Maybe WH can cut themself!
And after selling the porduct they dont need the respect of fans/people anymore,
so never show us some vidz about these themes! Some tiny little words are enough for our Money source!


#70

Hello everyone, I read very good ideas in what you propose, but we must consider an important thing in my opinion, too realism will kill the game all the lack of realism, it is not Hiding a game that offers reality and gameplay and make a game that is salable on a large scale because the game must report otherwise WH would close shop, there is also the Hardware side to take into account because added elements could make the games really too heavy and therefore limited the players. But simple things could be done.
Modify the trading system of the game to prevent the player from becoming rich. allow the player to wash it in the river and that the rain has an influence on the cleanliness of henri. that we can stop and deliver some NPCs instead of just killing him. depending on the social rank of a pnj give it the luxury of having more than one set of clothing. put more people in pilloris because apart from once with a pnj on this request what is it used in the game. to be able to resell or keep a horse that has been recovered from the bandit camp.
Have a more realistic and non-redundant traffic on the roads, make sure that the vents are more random and with more choice and meeting place example a house that would be attacked by bandits. walking with trolley and close protection.
limited the purchase of clothing and shields directly related to a city and that the hiccups or shields that you carry influence the reaction of the NPCs.
an idea of ​​DLC that could give a second life to the game
to make a system of mercenaries - companions and page which is for months a very important thing at the time of the game, because to run everywhere as they do and this alone it is a suicidal suicidal.
-Mercenaire would be paid by the day, if you do not know the paid he leaves you, a mercenary could abandon you during a fight because he wants to life. those if would have a positive or negative background what would change are attitude towards you, if it is negative and at a higher level it could decide to steal you overnight. this one has an equipment to him non modifiable and adapted to its level.
-When we have here a system of trust with the pnj if he has a good allignant and you commit too much bad action he could leave you and even you denounce the militia, this one gets a percentage of what you sell but you can see his states and it is you who equipped him at the level of the material and the horse, he could be used for occupied posts that you can obtain like master hunter, you replace in the militia of Rattay, this would make it possible to have a continued financial return as they would work for you.
For the page it is only from a certain level because this one and a playable character so we could controlled henry or the page according to the envy with exceptions for the switch of perso, impossible in full fighting
the availability of the different each style of character would be according to the lvl of 0 to 5 a companions after a companion or mercenary for a max of 4 in total with you this could open additional perspective as for the level of difficulty that would not be more rigid like currently, we would choose ourselves via a scale system what we would like as a style of games, "the level of difficulty of life games so the food needs of Henry, the level of enemies but it would also change their numbers and the frequency of the vents ".

But if not for the moment I think that the only solution for WH increased realism is at the level of the visual environment and hundreds of small actions like calling people or knocking on doors. if you sleep in the forest you may be woken by bandits. This will increase the realism while keeping some gameplay. Limit the time in the beginning of games, by preventing the player from wandering around Skalice until you have spoken to your father and once it is done to have a time limit to accomplish what he asks because we can distort the game at this time, I’m already out of skalice like many of you I guess with a high level in herbalism, maintenance, force and other states because we take advantage of the time freeze during this period of the game which greatly affects the real difficulty of the game.

I find the DLC pribyslavitz very interesting, but the designers limit us too much on the style of buildings, example we could just put the hostel with the play area but no alcohol production and instead a stable all like having to choose between the butcher and the baker while both could be put but without their extension. To be able to choose between different styles of construction for the same structure. As well as the final style that one wishes to give to the village is more fortifier or not and according to the choice of the player it will have to be more present or not because the village would be more exposed to attacks of group of bandits.
sorry for english but i use google translator


#71

En Français
Bonjours a tous, j’ai lu de très bonnes idées dans ce que vous proposez, mais il faut tenir compte d’une chose importante a mon avis, trop de réalisme tuera le jeux tous comme le manque de réalisme, il n’est pas évidant de faire un jeux qui propose réalité et gameplay et de faire un jeux qui soit vendable a grande échelle car le jeux doit rapporté sans quoi WH fermerais boutique, il y a aussi le coté Hardware a prendre en compte car ajouté des élément pourrais rendre le jeux vraiment trop lourd et donc limité les joueurs. Mais des chose simple pourrais être fais.
Modifier le système commercial du jeux pour évité de permettre au joueur de devenir riche. permettre au joueur de ce laver dans la rivière et que la pluie aie une influence sur la propreté d’henri. que l’on puisse arrêté et livrer certain pnj au lieu de simplement le tuer. selon le rang social d’un pnj lui donner le luxe d’avoir plus d’un ensemble de vêtement. mettre plus de personne au piloris car a part une fois avec un pnj on ce demande a quoi ça sert dans le jeux. pouvoir revendre ou garder un cheval que l’on a récupéré dans le camps de bandits.
Avoir une fréquentation sur les routes plus réaliste et non redondante, faire en sorte que les évents soient plus aléatoire et avec plus de choix et lieu de rencontre exemple une maison qui serait attaqué par des bandits. des marchant avec chariot et protection rapproché.
limité l’achat des vêtements et boucliers directement lié a une ville et que le hoqueton ou bouclier que vous portez influence la réaction des pnj.
une idée de DLC qui pourrais donné une deuxieme vie au jeux
faire un système de mercenaire - compagnons et page ce qui est pour mois une chose très importante a l’époque du jeux, car courir partout comme ont le fais et ce seul c’est un peux suicidaire.
-mercenaire serait a payé a la journée, si vous ne savez pas le payé il vous quitte, un mercenaire pourrais vous abandonné durant un combat car il tiens a la vie. ceux si aurais un fond positif ou négatif ce qui changerais sont attitude envers vous, si il est négatif et a un niveau supérieur il pourrais décider de vous volé durant la nuit. celui ci a un équipement a lui non modifiable et adapté a son niveau.
-Compagnons ici on un un système de confiance avec le pnj si il a un allignemant bon et que vous commettez trop de mauvaises action il pourrait vous quitter et même allé vous dénoncez a la milice, celui ci reçois un pourcentage de ce que vous revendez mais vous pouvez voir ses states et c’est vous qui l’équipé au niveau matériel et cheval, il pourrait être utilisé pour occupé des postes que vous pouvez obtenir comme maître chasseur, vous remplacez dans la milice de Rattay, ceci permettrais d’avoir une rentré financière continu car ils travaillerais pour vous.
Pour le page ce n’est qu’a partir d’un certain level car celui ci et un perso jouable donc on pourrait contrôlé henry ou le page selon l’envie avec des exceptions pour le switch de perso, impossible en plein combats
la disponibilité des différents chaque style de personnage serais selon le lvl de 0 a 5 un compagnons après un compagnon ou mercenaire pour un max de 4 au total avec vous ceci pourrais ouvrir des perspectives supplémentaire comme pour le niveau de difficulté qui ne serais plus rigide comme actuellement, on choisirait nous même via un système de balance ce que l’on aimerais comme style de jeux, “le niveau de difficulté de jeux de vie donc la nourriture les besoins de henry, le niveau des ennemis mais cela changerais également leur nombres et la fréquence des évents”.

Mais sinon pour le moment je pense que la seul solution pour WH d’augmenté le réalisme ce situe au niveau de l’environnement visuel et de centaines petites actions comme appeler des gens ou frapper aux portes. si vous dormez en foret vous pourriez être réveiller par des bandits. Ceci permettrais d’augmenter le réalisme tout en gardant un certain gameplay. Limiter le temps dans le début de jeux, en empêchant le joueur de ce balader partout dans Skalice tant que vous n’avez pas parlé a votre père et une fois que c’est fais d’avoir une limite de temps pour accomplir ce qu’il demande car on peux fausser le jeux a ce moment la, je suis déjà sorti de skalice comme beaucoup d’entre vous je suppose avec un haut niveau en herboristerie, entretient, force et d’autre states car on met a profit le gel temporel durant cette période du jeux ce qui nui grandement a la vraie difficulté du jeux.
Je trouve le DLC pribyslavitz très intéressant, mais les concepteurs nous limite trop sur le style de bâtiments, exemple on pourrais mettre juste l’auberge avec la zone jeux mais pas de production d’alcool et a la place une écurie tous comme devoir choisir entre le boucher et le boulanger alors que les deux pourraient être mis mais sans leur extension. Pouvoir avoir le choix entre différents style de construction pour une même structure. Ainsi que le style final que l’on souhaite donner au village soit plus fortifier ou pas et selon le choix du joueur il devra être plus présent ou pas car le village serait plus exposé a des attaques de groupe de bandits.


#72

-Archery should allow for instinctive shooting that improves as you level up. That’s how the best archers would shoot. I believe only a novice archer would ever use their bow & arrow to try to aim. There should be an accuracy cone that appears on the screen when the player uses instinctive shooting for where the arrow may land. As you level up the cone gets smaller and smaller. It’s like throwing a ball, the more you practice and get skills easier it is to pin point the throw.

-Weapons should not become more powerful as you level up. An arrow doesn’t suddenly fly faster or hurt more by magic. Weapon leveling should be more about learning technique. More accurate shots, faster draw. More accurate swings of the sword, less stamina needed per swing. Stuff of that nature.

-Make a perk that allows the player to sleep wherever they are. I should be able to sleep straight on the ground without a cot being there. Comfort would be extremely low, but sometimes you just need a small boost of energy or you need to pass time and it’d be nice to do so and regain energy in the process.

-Sleeping anywhere that’s not a locked off room should give the risk of being robbed or attacked. There could even be a perk called “light sleeper” that allows Henry to detect if someone is trying to rob him while he sleeps. If such a thing happens, he would wake up before they can steal from him.

-Get rid of the pots of food everywhere and allow Henry to buy a hot meal at the tavern (that doesn’t go into inventory). Being in the wilderness should force you to hunt and cook fresh food or carry some food with you before you set out.

-Allow the player to stop eating at 100 nourishment. I don’t understand the purpose of making the player do math to figure out if they’ll overeat or not. Overeating should be a conscious decision or something that maybe happens at a feast.

-Henry should be able to give money to beggars.

-Days of the week. On Sundays shops should be closed and you should see most of the people in town at church in the morning (which the player could have Henry attend).

-Speaking of church, at least make the Mass realistic. At that time, Mass would have been very similar if not exactly like the Tridentine Mass, which while limited, still exists today (although the Missal has changed slightly, the Mass itself is the same). Maybe the cities could have sung High Masses, while smaller towns may just have the more quiet Low Mass. Also, if you’re going to put Gregorian chant in the game, use it correctly. You wouldn’t be hearing the Gloria, Credo, and Agnus Dei outside of Mass. It would be neat if you walked by a church in the evening to hear Vespers being chanted. It was nice to hear the Angelus Bells being rung, although even there it would be cool to see people stop what they’re doing for a moment to pray the Angelus.

-Nights out. Would be a nice way for Henry to build relationships with people to go out at night to the taverns. Should be able to do it whenever with anyone major NPC who is willing. It could give a better purpose to the drinking aspect of the game. Also, getting too out of hand can then lead to different situations… either funny or bad. Allows for a nice way to make funny, light moments in the game.

-Haggling should go both ways. If you ask for too much the person should actually raise the price on you. Maybe a perk could prevent such a thing. Either way, the routine shouldn’t be to low ball just enough so they don’t walk away followed by going just a bit lower to what they come down to.

-Intracity drama. I’d like to see competing merchants within a town who get at each other and who Henry can do quests for. Besides the smallest of towns, you’re not going to see a single merchant for each specialty. There should be multiple and in theory they would compete. Doing quests for one can raise their respect for Henry, but lower it for the other. You can sabotage in favor of one or the other. Maybe sabotage both. Even people who are not in the same field but just don’t like each other. The more you can do to make the towns feel more alive and interesting rather than just hubs to buy stuff and get quests.


#73

Including peripheral vision, the visual field of the average person is approximately 170-180 degrees. Console games are usually played on a TV at a large distance from the viewer, while PC games are usually played on computer monitors close to the viewer. Therefore, a narrow FOV of around 60 degrees is used for console games as the screen subtends a small part of the viewer’s visual field, and a larger FOV of 90 to 100 degrees is usually set for PC games as the screen occupies a larger amount of the viewer’s vision.

Many PC games that are released after 2000 are ported from consoles, or developed for both console and PC platforms. Ideally, the developer will set a wider FOV in the PC release, or offer a setting to change the FOV to the player’s preference. However, in many cases the narrow FOV of the console release is retained in the PC version. This results in an uncomfortable sensation likened to viewing the scene through binoculars, and may lead to disorientation, dizziness, or nausea.

I have rarely experienced this in games. But that bolded part at the end of that Wikipedia quote is an uncomfortably common part of my experience with KCD. I’ve even got it modded to 85 FOV, but that alchemy bench is brutal . . . Finally figured out a trick to auto-brew without that wild (and completely unnecessary, one might call it “GRATUITOUS”) camera swing back to the center of the bench after an auto-brew. You got to time it just right, but just as you are hearing the auto-brew liquid-boil noise, tap one of your left or right arrow keys, this will flip the page on the recipe book and keep your camera from swaying back to the middle of the bench.

ADDIT: this might seem like an OT side-track but it really is not I think.

The topic of the thread is realism, and one has to ask: why did they include so much swaying First-person perspective camera animations? A desire to come across as “realistic” is about the best thing I can think of. While I admire this attention to detail and I empathize with the motivation, I’m not certain that it is entirely effective, and in some cases, the parameters underlying the animations, and/or the lack of customizability for end-users to skip or otherwise alter these animations, actually TAKES AWAY from immersion, i.e., “realism” by exposing the user to repeated, annoying, nauseating, or otherwise unpleasant pauses in actual gameplay.


#74

relative richness is the issue. cited elsewhere an observation that in medieval France a warhorse (quality) horse cost a minor noble about 1/5 of yearly income. maybe pricing in medieval Bohemia was different. and, maybe in an RPG 20% is too steep a cost (devil’s advocate would say prove it). so tinker with the numbers a bit. no offense but if Prokop can model derivatives, modeling a more reasonable relative cost for Jenda (and the other horses) should be a piece of cake.

the game currently renders MQ rewards (eg baptism) trivial relative to basic roaming activities. i love hunting and looting bandits and Cumans, but the scaling in broken. there just shouldn’t be a profitable market for a high volume of (highly) damaged armor and weapons.


#75

Given what we see in the cut-scenes and the dialogue animations, I have serious doubts that a 3rd person camera is “untenable.” Clearly the way their models are rendered can be done from a variety of perspectives.

The details of how game engines handle this stuff is above my pay-grade as a C++ programmer still stuck at the “Apprentice/Journeyman” boundary (but I found that more training in that path was leading me further from actual game making and farther into “engine” or “OS” design than I need to go at this time, so I’ve turned my attention more to narrative and art creation for the time being . . . well, when I’m not slacking :smiley:). I can imagine how getting a third person camera to work well (even excluding combat) could be a technical challenge and in particular one which they did not have the time or resources to address . . . Actually, come to think of it, Far Cry doesn’t have a 3rd person camera either, does it?
So maybe the pre-existing code for a 3rd person camera which would be there in an engine like Unreal or Unity just isn’t in CryEngine?

If the explanation for it is in fact “technical,” then I can’t fault them, and only say “Man I really wish you guys could get that sorted out and include a 3rd person camera mode either in a paid DLC or in a second game.” It seems “believable” that “technical” factors may have contributed to the decision to exclude that camera mode.

If the explanation is “design decision,” well, I’ve already said my piece: please don’t do that to us again.

ADDIT: actually, I suggest that Warhorse do a survey on their Steam Community page and somehow try to segment their sample by current owners versus non-owners of the game.

“If Warhorse were to release a DLC that included a “modicum” (they could elaborate on what that means in their survey prompt) of new content, and story lines, how much would you feel was a “good deal” for such a DLC?
(a) Wouldn’t pay anything
(b) Would happily pay up to $2
© Would happily pay up to $5
(d) Would happily pay up to $10
(e) Would happily pay up to $15
(f) Would happily pay up to $20”

Then have a second question:

“If Warhorse were to release a DLC that included zero new content, and story lines, but DID include various technical enhancements such as a ubiquitous (and user-controlled) third person camera, how much would you feel was a “good deal” for such a DLC?
(a) Wouldn’t pay anything
(b) Would happily pay up to $2
© Would happily pay up to $5
(d) Would happily pay up to $10
(e) Would happily pay up to $15
(f) Would happily pay up to $20”


#76

not an issue in and of itself but not a few console users don’t got to steam

don’t know if anybody saw or had thoughts on this


#77

I don’t own a console, but I have the impression that most varieties have online connectivity and some variety of online retail? Post the same survey there . . .


#78

like here :face_with_raised_eyebrow: wouldn’t be an unreasonable place to conduct a survey


#79

post it everywhere!
Post it in Nancy Pelosi’s Twatter feed!


#80

that assumes the premise of survey question aligns with WH’s strategic vision. the ashes survey (in this forum), its results, and WH’s response to user feedback during their ashes livestream lead me to challenge that belief


#81

I’m not familiar with the “ashes survey” or with what hints there are of WH’s Strategic vision though? Please clarify good sir?