KCD combat system - spot on, half baked, or good enough?

Obviously that you have a role xD the point it’s that you always are the same Henry you can’t choose to be a bandit Henry or a assassin Henry or a diplomat Henry or a knight Henry you always have to do or all of them or a knight because the game try always to push you into that path of kinghthood, it’s more linear that what the game shows you at first sight, that doesn’t make it bad it’s just limit a lot the role playing aspects of the game

Not saying it’s bad. Has potential to be my favorite game. It’s just not true or pure RPG as advertised/suggested

Agree with that totally I think we both try to explain the same and didn’t understand each other xD

to add insult to injury, masterstrokes with mace and axe are now virtually impossible to learn from the lesson since you can’t even execute it in the training for some godforsaken reason no matter how well you followed the instructions and then you’re stuck in the lesson, whilst stronger foemen you encounter uses masterstrokes on you every few attacks you make without breaking a sweat in face of someone (you) who could hardly use it (if at all)…

I would say that instead of a “sandbox RPG” like the developers describe, it is an open world game with RPG and survival elements. It’s closer to Grand Theft Auto or Red Dead Redemption in terms of the paths that your character can take but then tacks on the stats system of Skyrim/Oblivion and survival elements. Basically this game is a mash up of my absolute favorite games of all time and that’s not a bad thing. It combines the freedom of choice and character stat development of Skyrim with the strong characters and story of Red Dead Redemption.

In my opinion there are lots of good ideas but some issues with implementation/adjustment

Current problem I see is that enemies will perfect block/riposte anything (unless you have maxed warfare)
aiming where the enemy is not defended or use feint has no effect at all (at least I have seen no difference in the % hit blocked/parried by opponent)
combos are useless because opponents will always perfect block/evade before you can land 2/3 hits in a row (why would you even try a 4 hit combo rather than 3 hits ones when chances of landing the 3rd consecutive hit are so low?)
Because of that, the only effective tactic (in melee) is to wait for opponent to attack and use master strike (and only use long sword as it currently is bugged with any other weapon if your plaline was started after 1.3)

easy fix (in my opinion) would be to make sure that enemy chances to perfectblock/riposte are extremely reduced if you use feint, attack where not guarded, second attack in a row. They can still use normal block but not the perfect block so that you can they try to use the combo.
This would make combos way more useful and reward players who are using feint, aim unguarded areas, and exercute combos right.
High level enemies than you would still having a much higher chances to rispote but you would not be frustrated by random low level bandit using perfect block on most of your strikes

I do feel this was the initial intent but is either bugged or not implemented at all.

as other people have pointed out, might be good to also limit the base stats increase from combat but provide other ways to increase those stats (other side activities/jobs like wood cutting for strength, agility increasing from dodging hits or from work done for craftmen etc…)

You’ve nailed a fundamental flaw. Usually if I 2-3 hit in a row, game over. So, to time and execute a particular combo isn’t an effective strategy when easier and cheaper (stamina) alternatives. Combo should be evident based on NPC tendency. Can’t say this exists

Vastly better combat that Skyrim, although not as ‘arcadey’ as the witcher 3.

Dragons dogma got arcade combat right… (dragons crown especially so -a true hidden gem)

But this is a realism game.

Die by the Sword?
I played that game when it first came out…
Kingdome Come has made me get out of the cupboard my Razer Hydra…

The combat is funtional and fun.
I turn crosshairs off in all my medieval walking simulators.
I praise the studio for implementing something new and making it so that more playtime rewards.
(We do get more skilled through practise)

In hindsight this will prove a strong point (of contention?) for this game.
Personally I think it is an improvement on what has been before.

Balance and ‘tightening’ will happen in due course.
It is important we keep discussions about the fighting system clear- whether we like it and it needs some smoothing; or whether it is bad and… (propose other solutuon so we can see your particular flavour)… remember if we arent part of the solution; then :wink:

Like what WH has done with player controls. Some aspects such as combo utility need tweaking. I remember talking to someone about situational combat. If WH could create a tell/tendency (explained by Bernard: ‘when Cuman raise sword and x, then do this combo’) leading to a combat situation, the utility would rise enormously

Let’s be candid though… Dragons dogma, Skyrim, Dragon age, Oblivion, etc has more fluid enemy NPC AI.

WH could strengthen this offering a lot by adding (more overt) combat styles:
—boss v novice
—Cuman vs town guards vs crime family (organized; high grade armor/weapons/tactics; pro banditry) vs ruffians (small; low grade armor/weapons/tactics; amateur banditry)

Hmmn enemy AI?

Skyrim and Oblivion have some cool back end stuff but scratch the surface and it is very shallow.
Both of those game fail completely at combat based on tge average first time player inside of half an hour will find ways to ‘cheat the system’, and then can reliably do so for the entire game. Making combat a fear free experience.

Personally I like the adrenalin (real world) that Kingdome Comes combat makes flow through me.

Dragons Dogma got controls right.
But… a game where you bow hits the same mark every time sucks.
(My take)
I like games like killzone (weapons have weight), and I wont play an fps that doesnt feature recoil (ziggurat being an exception). I generally turn crosshairs off in all my rpgs…
So kingdom come suits me.
It set out to be a niche game with regards to things like combat and it succeeds.

If someone wants to argue for combat in skyrim (as if it isnt the worst combat in an rpg imaginable) go for it- to each their own- but none of my friends (most hailing from 80s D&D) find Skyrim/Oblivion as anything fitting for combat.
Only mods make those walking simulators fun. (Beyond first playthrough).

There is a reason baldurs gate was sooooo replayable.
And Kingdom Come does this- the various dialogues that open up…
Divinity (os 2) gets complex combat right - but that isnt going to happen in real time until players evolve and get comfortable with complex button controllers. .
In the meantime; KCD can polish polish polish.

Its basis is sound; with a lil tightening it will get better.
It is obvious devs care and are world balancing; so we just have to give them time to realise their vision.
Sometimes- until the whole functions correctly- smaller parts (eg combat/alchemy) dont make sense why certain gimpings are being enforced.

Having spun final fantasy xv; I cringed at the player agency being removed to enforce certain battle flow.
For a game with an arcadey fight simulation it missed many marks. Kingdom Come gets many right.
When these things are placed in context…

I agree. I’m still learning the combat so I can’t give a very informed opinion, but I like its depth.

I don’t mean under the hood AI code; I mean the fight behaviour. Let’s say KCD is more complex under the hood. It’s not effective. I’ve never shot a ranged weapon by an enemy in FO series, Elderscrolls series, DragonAge series, etc and had them not or under respond as in KCD. Never had an enemy quit and stand like a statue while I aim in plain sight and shoot my ranged weapon at him at a range of 5-10m. No defensive posture, no winded (hands on knees) posture, no attempt to walk away; put weapons away and stand. :no_mouth::gun:

What does ‘get it right’ mean with those games you cite? To me, Dragon dogma (DD) was interesting and challenging up to a point. Then, it was fantastic perk, button mashing for the win… basic reason I didn’t buy the DD sequel and the Skyrim remastered version

KCD doesn’t have griffins, harpies, dragons etc. KCD needs to compensate by offering more variety in techniques of its NPCs. That’s what I’m driving at. Just nerfing Henry’s perks and stats is only a half measure. Add a reason AND opportunity to use the combo.

When an enemy camp is attacked, have the Cuman respond like a veteran, invading army that they were. Have the bandit be more aggro, less technique. Etc

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IMO mechanically Warhorse has so far created the best melee system ever devised for realsitic swordplay in a game. The issue is that the AI is completely bonkers in a fight and it’s pathetically easy to 1v1 anybody after you’ve gotten training from Bernard, with the only exception being the occasional Cuman Captain with a mace and shield who briefly gains sapience and learns how to feint. If the AI were able to make more competent use of the mechanics already provided to them, it’d be perfect, or as near perfect as you can get.

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Aside from the magical stab to the face at higher levels that lets you pretty much one-shot anybody with a pointy sword, it’s pretty spot on. I like it. At that point in the game I just avoid thrusting.

Or just stick with a normal sword. The only thing I’d say that really breaks fast is maces, simply due to the ridiculous damage even a crappy one does with the right perks. Which is why I’ve been using axes in a new playthrough, much harder to take people out.