Keep the Shakespearean language. Your fans aren't stupid!

Story & Setting
#65

Unsen fruntliken grut tovoren.

Ersamen guden frunde, deme gemenen beste to gude unde profite unde na sunder liker begeringe de hir ere kopp zerbreken, hebben wy eendrechtigen mit unsen leven borgeren upgenomen, ingesettet unde geslaten,dat men in unser speele nit sprekken sulle Mittelniederdeutsch, nor veer dagh lange. Nemeliche dree weken vor deme sondage to vastelavend esto michi, den anderen up den sondagh oculi, den drudden up den palmensondagh unde den veerden uppe den dagh aller apostell! Gode bevolen! :wink:

This is the medieval language they have spoken in north Germany where I live. Please raise your hands if you understand this and want to have it in the game! :wink:

Thank you Tourist, that you backup me with the artificial “Marktsprech”. I fear, that If Warhorse will order a translation in “old German” from a normal studio in Germany, this is excactly what they will get.

Dialect: I am a big fan of “Sharpe’s Rifles”, a TV serial, taking place in the napoleonic wars. The lower class soldiers speak English with a strong dialect from all over the country. As a non-native speaker, I only understand half of the jokes and can sometimes hardly follow the plot. It is very immersive, but sometimes to stressfull for me and I have to switch it off.

On the other hand I would not like the idea to change the dialect or accent to a German accent in the translation. I just imagine somebody asking something in a modern north german Hamburger-accent and the other answers in bavarian accent! German readers will know why I get goose bumps from that! Maybe it would be very funny, but I really think it would break the immersion for me!

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#66

isn’t that even more fake than what they’re doing? what’s the difference between contemporary modern and elizabethan modern?

i feel if they’re doing it in english, they could essentially do it any way they want, of course without “yo dog, whassup” level of present day english and sland.

#67

Both are equally fake; the difference is that one is much easier to get right than the other. It’s relatively easy to write dialogue in contemporary English since that’s what modern people already speak, so they have a good idea of what sounds realistic and natural (even when excluding modern slang). But Early Modern English has a whole lot of differences in grammar, syntax and vocabulary, which makes it far more difficult for a modern person to get a handle on. If you’re prepared to put in the time, effort and research it would take to write dialogue in accurate Elizabethan English - as opposed to the dialogue in the trailer, which sounds like a bunch of LARPers trying to do ‘Olde English’ and failing miserably - you may as well go the whole hog and use actual 14th-century English, or 14th-century Czech for that matter.

i feel if they’re doing it in english, they could essentially do it any way they want, of course without “yo dog, whassup” level of present day english and sland.

They could, but as I mentioned above, whatever they choose needs to be consistent. You can’t just randomly mix up language from different time periods and expect people not to notice - can you imagine if they took that approach with weapons or armour? This is a game aimed specifically at history buffs, for crying out loud. People will notice, and they will care.

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#68

So 
 as a German speaking player I wish firstly a German voice output (!) in a language style that I please understand right away (!!!). We are talking about a game and not a German studies. Or a study of Old English or other languages ​​/ dialects. You might think about doing something later using the game (eg as Mod) - the should then apply for the respective Ministry of Education and pay.

And another thing, there is a difference between reading and endless dialogues has time to make sense of the meaning, or whether one is successively addressed in a speech afloat on all sides. If you then not get it and make incorrect decisions which is very annoying for an average player and holds great potential frustration.

also
als deutschsprachiger Spieler wĂŒnsche ich mir zum einen eine deutsche Sprachausgabe (!!) in einem Sprachstil, den ich bitte auf Anhieb verstehe (!!!). Wir reden hier ĂŒber ein Spiel und nicht ĂŒber ein Germanistikstudium. Oder ein Studium alter englischer oder anderer Sprachen/Dialekte. Man könnte darĂŒber nachdenken, sowas spĂ€ter mithilfe des Spieles zu machen (z.B. als Mod) - den sollte dann aber das jeweilige Bildungsministerium beantragen und bezahlen.

Und noch etwas, es ist ein Unterschied, ob man Dialoge liest und endlos Zeit hat, sich einen Reim ĂŒber den Sinn zu machen, oder ob man in einer Sprachausgabe flott hintereinander von allen Seiten vollgetextet wird. Wenn man dann nix kapiert und falsche Entscheidungen trifft ist das sehr Ă€rgerlich fĂŒr einen durchschnittlichen Spieler und birgt hohes Frustpotenzial.

#69

I can do some guessing at best (with the limited time in a video game dialog), but Henry wouldn’t understand it either so why should the player. When the game eventually get’s to the battle of Grunwald and introduces some Teuton characters Mittleniederdeutsch would be appropriate but it still shouldn’t be the main language of the game. The question is how much mittleober/hoch deutsch does the main character understand and how much of this would the characters in game actually use? But that’s all up to Warhorse.

#70

Hi Thiomay,
we talk about localization/translation of the game-dialogues.
The starting-question was about “shakespearean Englisch”.
If they translate the dialogues in English (as like they are in the moment), and coose an oldish “shakespearean English” (maybe even with dialects of North-/Southengland), what will they do if they localize/translate it in German for the German market? Or Spanish, French, or whatever?
Will they use oldish language in German, Franch, Spanish, too? Or even really medieval language with dialects, as it is to be discussed above?
My postings points in that direction. I’m not talking about what language the gamecharcter would have spoken in that timeperiod (whereas even there it would be a small chance for him to speake German, but that is another point).

My point ov view is: Please use modern language, but avoid very modern words.

Silly exaple
 not: “Hail to thee, my jolly companion! Put down your heavy burdon and spend some joyful time at my brave little fire.”, even not: “C’mon bro, drop your stuff and chill with me
”, but maybe simple: “Greetings my friend, lay down your arms and take a rest.”

Auf deutsch
 Nicht: “Sey mir gegrĂŒĂŸt, edler Recke! Lege er seine schwere Last ab an dieser StĂ€tte und ruhe er sich ein Weilchen aus.”, auch nicht: “He alda, schmeiss deinen Krempel da hin und chill mit mir.”, sondern lieber einfach: “Ich grĂŒĂŸe (meinetwegen auch “guten Abend” oder “grĂŒĂŸ Gott”) dich mein Freund, leg deine Waffen ab und ruh dich ein wenig aus.”

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#71

I probably spammed all language related threads with my opinion by now and seem have ignored what this particular one was about. Probably time to stop. The games language should be accurate and/or accessible. The hole point of translation is to sacrifice accuracy/meaning to make it accessible to wider audience so I think period language in a translated version completely defeats that purpose. Also I really doubt a third party localization studio would do it properly( if that is even possible).

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#72

I don’t see how any older version of language (except of czech/partly german) can be more accurate/important than “modern” version. It doesn’t matter if you hear shakespear english, it’s still a historical nonsense and immersive breaking, so why making so big deal about it 


4 Likes
#73

I like this! It sounds like you have the same problem like us in Germany with the earlier mentioned “Marktsprech”.

I resume: The best argument against contemporary language is, that some (many?) player think this “oldish” language would bring a better somewhat “oldish” athmosphere.
For me and some other, knowing that this artificial language is pure nonsense, it will bring headache (obviously worse in the own language).

Question to the forum: Do you really think contemporary language will kill the athmosphere?

#74

If we are to ufe old Englifh in ways hitherto mentioned we ought to provide inftruEctions for reading fince many may find they have not acquir’d the knowledg to do so.

Not to mention it would be a pain in the arse to read this.

#75

I agree. I’m from Czech Republic and I do not need to hear any old Czech or Old English. I want a well performed and understandable English.

#76

it looks right now as though only the opposition to Shakespearean English stayed in the thread until now. Alas that doesn’t say anything about the general player population. (44 likes of the original post is still a lot)

#77

what does your first sentence mean.

#78

it’s supposed to mean: that all the most recent posts seem to be against the “Shakespearean language” but on the other hand the people who check the forum all the time don’t represent all the players.

#79

I recently saw the Shogun miniseries, which features Shakespearean language, in romantic settings. I have to say, it absolutely destroyed the illusion. Not due to inconsistency or historical accuracy, but because of how Shakespearean language is perceived today, as posh, pretentious and cheesy.

In my opinion, it’s not about objectively communicating history to the player, but also communicating the feeling of existing in the period.

#80

Watch Henry V, it might just change your opinion. :wink:

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#81

Try the True Grit remake for true-sounding dialogue without that awkwardness of ye olde bollockeths

#82

I still can’t get past the modern american accents used in the Alpha
 I think whatever language is used, that is a terrible decision. If Warhorse have hired a decent writer, and decent actors, they’ll make the language work. If they cast modern americans, it’ll never work for me. It’s not that I dislike americans either before you jump on that. I wouldn’t cast a brit to play JFK.

#83

true grit remake takes place in the american western frontier, not a very good frame of reference. i second the kenneth branagh henry fifth recommendation. you can get the band of brothers and dogs of war speech on youtube.

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