Layered clothing / armor - what is so special about it

Gameplay
#1

Dear all,

the creators mentioned several times that the possibility to put multiple layers of clothes / armor on the character is technologicaly unique / special and that e.g. they will even share it with the star-people.

Could you please explain - from technology point of view - why / what / where e.g. -

  • Why do you think it is so unique?
  • What are the challenges to implement?
  • There is really nobody else that tried this before ?
  • Is this uniqueness related to crying-engine or all ( most ) current / past engines ?

My point is that the end result looks ok / natural / nothing special (which is probably the intended intention) , but it does not look as something ā€˜WOWā€™ to my ā€˜untrainedā€™ game-consumer eye, rather like this .

Thanks.

2 Likes
#2

I have no idea, but I think the main problem is clipping between layers and having them looking as they were touching each other.

#3

I am also interested in knowing what so special about it.

The part where Dan is saying that it can be implemented to starships is also quite interesting.

#4

I really canā€™t recall game where you can equip items on the layers. Itā€™s always one piece on one part of the body. And with clipping of course.

Do you know some game where is this system with layers?

1 Like
#5

Yes, main problem always was clipping.
Are you around since yesterday?
Clipping has been an annoyance for centuries!

Would be nice to have game world completely without any clipping.
Still a long way to go I think. :frowning:

#6

I presume you are not referring to clipping of nails ? :wink:

ok - i will check this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipping_(computer_graphics)

#7

No, when an object passes through another.

And there were clipping in the stream (but was in the version of the game)

#8

One of the big upsides is the level of customization and how many npcs can be on screen with without them all looking the same, which adds to the immersion of the game.

#9

Example:

Objects stick in each other because thereā€™s no proper collision detection.

#10

Btw, the sword hit detections (and sliding) weā€™re nice in the streaming.

#11

It was something I really wanted to see in PC game. Why? Well, it is realistic, sure, that is one important reason for me. You can customize your character very well with it, so it allows greater variability. You have to wear some shirt or tunic, then you have to wear gambeson, which redistributes weight from chainmail armor and protects you against blunt strikes. Historically it was enough to protect Conquistadors from Aztecā€™s attacks. Then you can add chainmail, which add a lot of weight (more than plate) and it protects you great against slashing and cutting (another type off attack), but less against piercing attacks. Then you may add plate armor to compensate for it. But there have to be some advantages for fighting unarmored (more stamina?). Even plate gauntles will slow your blocks and attacks for almost noteless time, but it is there. I am realy looking forward to it :wink:

1 Like
#12

Could you please elaborate a bit more ? iā€™m complete noob re video graphics.

E.g. the rifle in your picture is basically similar to armored hat / shirt that someone wears in KC-D and the programmers must set the collision rules that would prevent overlaying of shirt, trousers and slippers ?

#13

Acturly it could work on Hull layering with plating, shells etc

Multiple layers allow you to realisticly do multiple things in exchange for extra weight

#14

At least there are ā€œThe Elder Scrollsā€ games. But there you could wear armor over your clothes and then a cloak over the armor, for example, but there wasnā€™t possibility to wear several layers of armor. But also I can remember an old russian RPG ā€œEvil Islandsā€)) There you could wear a mail shirt and hoses or a leather armor under a plate armor.
As for me, I think it is, of course, not unique, but absolutely right idea from all points of view. And realisation looks very good even now.

#15

Here is how I think it works: each part of the body(like head, torso,legsā€¦) has up to 4 layers.

For the torso the first 3 layers could be just one 3D model that applies the image of the item one over the other like in photoshop or gimp. Each layer has its own DDT ( canā€™t remember if itā€™s this extention for the displacement map), and would be masked out as the image of the layer. The lower ones, like shirts, will have low displacement while the third will have the highest displacement ( the displacement will look like they are in 3D). For the fourth layer it could use an 3D model of an armour.

The difference in low, medium and high displacement is to not seems strange since a shirt will be more closer to the body than the top layers.

So, the 3D model for the first 3 layers has the same movement as the body (like bending the lower tip of the 3D model to not have clipping with the leg), while the fourth layer has its own model and hit detection.

This would apply for the other parts of the body.

But since I could think of it, they probably used a more clever way.

1 Like
#16

@Tomohare

This might work to some extent, but what happens when one of the outer layers (say layer 2, and letā€™s say for argumentā€™s sake itā€™s a shirt that is open at the front) has a cutout section to it (the open part of the shirt down the front)? If the player is wearing an undershirt (layer 1) then this will have to be rendered as well as layer 2, or if they have nothing else on underneath then it will have to render the players body model.

#17

Thing of layers in gimp/photoshop, each layer has its transparency portion that you can draw as you wish while still seeing the bottom layer

Itā€™s not necessary to render two layers, but a game now a days, with such power can afford having each layer rendered (but I think itā€™s unlikely).

#18

You mean in fact there are 4 character (wire) models, from the outside going inside, each a little bit smaller, some kind of Matryoshka system? I see, that could prevent the clipping.
And then the textures are applied to the layers according to the type of clothing? Nice idea. Overall good thinking. :wink:

#19

@Tomohare

Ah ok, so you can do transparency. That solves that problem.

What about z-fighting? Wouldnā€™t having textures rendering one over the top of the other so close together like that cause flickering and possible polygon clipping? (I am only guessing here, itā€™s a problem on the Elder Scrolls game engine but may not be on CryEngine 3)

#20

No, because they are in the same object they are not rendered separately (think of a tv display, if you cut it you will destroy the tv, not what was displaying). There can also have a method that sees where and how it was his and make a cut in the top layer.

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