Layered clothing / armor - what is so special about it

Acturly it could work on Hull layering with plating, shells etc

Multiple layers allow you to realisticly do multiple things in exchange for extra weight

At least there are “The Elder Scrolls” games. But there you could wear armor over your clothes and then a cloak over the armor, for example, but there wasn’t possibility to wear several layers of armor. But also I can remember an old russian RPG “Evil Islands”)) There you could wear a mail shirt and hoses or a leather armor under a plate armor.
As for me, I think it is, of course, not unique, but absolutely right idea from all points of view. And realisation looks very good even now.

Here is how I think it works: each part of the body(like head, torso,legs…) has up to 4 layers.

For the torso the first 3 layers could be just one 3D model that applies the image of the item one over the other like in photoshop or gimp. Each layer has its own DDT ( can’t remember if it’s this extention for the displacement map), and would be masked out as the image of the layer. The lower ones, like shirts, will have low displacement while the third will have the highest displacement ( the displacement will look like they are in 3D). For the fourth layer it could use an 3D model of an armour.

The difference in low, medium and high displacement is to not seems strange since a shirt will be more closer to the body than the top layers.

So, the 3D model for the first 3 layers has the same movement as the body (like bending the lower tip of the 3D model to not have clipping with the leg), while the fourth layer has its own model and hit detection.

This would apply for the other parts of the body.

But since I could think of it, they probably used a more clever way.

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@Tomohare

This might work to some extent, but what happens when one of the outer layers (say layer 2, and let’s say for argument’s sake it’s a shirt that is open at the front) has a cutout section to it (the open part of the shirt down the front)? If the player is wearing an undershirt (layer 1) then this will have to be rendered as well as layer 2, or if they have nothing else on underneath then it will have to render the players body model.

Thing of layers in gimp/photoshop, each layer has its transparency portion that you can draw as you wish while still seeing the bottom layer

It’s not necessary to render two layers, but a game now a days, with such power can afford having each layer rendered (but I think it’s unlikely).

You mean in fact there are 4 character (wire) models, from the outside going inside, each a little bit smaller, some kind of Matryoshka system? I see, that could prevent the clipping.
And then the textures are applied to the layers according to the type of clothing? Nice idea. Overall good thinking. :wink:

@Tomohare

Ah ok, so you can do transparency. That solves that problem.

What about z-fighting? Wouldn’t having textures rendering one over the top of the other so close together like that cause flickering and possible polygon clipping? (I am only guessing here, it’s a problem on the Elder Scrolls game engine but may not be on CryEngine 3)

No, because they are in the same object they are not rendered separately (think of a tv display, if you cut it you will destroy the tv, not what was displaying). There can also have a method that sees where and how it was his and make a cut in the top layer.

Thankyou Tomohare for taking the time to explain, I’ll admit that I’m very much out of my depth on this topic and only understand some basic principles of how all the game elements fit together. From what I gather from your above posts your original idea is in fact a very good one.

I learned something new today! :smiley:

No problem, but remember that is all guessing, they probably use something more clever.

Hello guys
It is unique in a way that it saves huge amounts of time and money for developers. Imagine that you want to have 1000 unique and detailed characters in your game. You can of course create 1000 unique characters or you can use our system and create just a few parts and uniquely “lay” and combine them.
Visually you probably won’t see any difference, becouse all we can do with it can be done by creating every possible combination manually by dozens of concept and 3D artists. But it will save us time and money which we can invest elsewhere and make the core of our game better.

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I love the system (it reminds me a lot of the old Might&Magic series and other games of that era), but I’m not sure what exactly seperates it from the system used in Morrowind, for example. Anyway, it’s great to see someone doing it again.

ok - so the ‘uniqueness’ is in the efficiency and reusability - with car analogy - the car would still drive and move around, but the KCD car needs 1L per 100Km whereas other engines / cars would need 20L per 100Km (?)

Well yes. So if you have a business and you have this car you can now afford another employee who will make your product better.

It’s more realistic too. A man at arms would have a tunic, gambeson, plate harness and perhaps a surcoat over all of that.

well - you as end-user would not recognize it - whether KC-D way or all those manually created combinations…

in The Elder Scrolls III you have at least 3 layer dress-armor-tunic if I’m remember right =)

But visible is just one. And all clipping together.

And the medieval nerds/reenactors/historians/archaeologists love it for its realism… :slight_smile:

This might be relevant to the starships ins tar citizen… but that game needs hundreds of thousands of characters… so the system is pretty relevant for help making the characters, their clothing, gear and weapons.
making wool clothing or a spacesuit should not be that different…

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I think its just a cool new idea to be done. But of course the clipping issues is what makes it difficult.