One of my greatest desires is there to be… NO LEVELLING UP. Sure, make especially high quality, crafted equipment do more damage, but not people just hit ten times harder just because they are level X. I really hope the game embraces some of the genuine character of the period and we don’t rehash what has been done before.
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I like the idea of having the potential to sharpen your sword to make the “stats” increase. I also think that you may have hit it on the head with the idea of upgrading your low quality sword to something of a medium standard but not being able to upgrade it any further. If a player would like to do that then they would have to either find the materials and the know how to craft or just straight up purchase their new item.
if he can pass out of the way of the spear or deflect it with a shield, then the spear user is a goner.
Maybe the upgrading part is not only going to be on your weapon itself but maybe in the equipment for building the weapons. Like for forging a sword, you would need at some point a properly faced hammer avoiding a damage in the blade and customize the hammer handle to stand up the work. Since we will play a blacksmith boy we might have all the equipment but not the best ones so that we start little. The burner can be upgraded in higher and more stable temperatures. The pure metals are to expensive at the starting point and they could be traded or given as a gift for a quest, and since you are a blacksmith it wouldn’t be that awkward to ask for.
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Passing the spear is just half the battle. I don’t deny usefulness of it, but…
Are we talking about fight in formation or an duel? In formation you have less room to move and therefore it could be a problem. On the other hand in a duel, spear user may step backwards or start a fight with a quick succesion of attacks against opponent face and force him to block his view with a shield (which should be avoided). After that is just a matter of quick maneuvre and killing blow. Also if enemy gets near, you can always quickly bash him with a blunt end of a spear. Real speed of spear (two-handed) is extremly underrated in games. But in a formation (battle) I would definitely take a shield with me, because I need some defense against projectiles.
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that’s all nice and well, if we assume the person is just standing there waiting for the spearmen to skewer him. deflect, close in immediately, and suddenly the spear’s length is a disadvantage. and he’s going to swing and hit the attacker with the pole? won’t change the fact that by then, the sword is inches away from slicing his throat.
And again: Can spearman move as well? And yeah, quick bash with a pole to a nose can be painful enaugh to disorientate. There are many variables: armor, space around, body constitution of both fighters… Well a I wrote that spear may be overpowered, which started this disscusion. It may be too harsh. But spearman is definitely not so defenseless against sword and shield as you suggest.
in a duel, the spearman is at a terrible disadvantage.
And some arguments? Sources? I’m willing to debate it, but I need some response…
Or nevermind, it is a bit offtopic, we may debate via private messages.
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I’m with Jethro om this one, no real “levelling up” but maybe upping the quality, like sharpness, quality of the material (maybe one could use something like better steel on a surface layer giving slight advantages above the “old version” and making something completely new of the better steel giving a great advantage) or the balance of the weapon. Or with a bow maybe the quality of the wood and the bowstring and the curve of the wood, maybe even adding a recurve on the better bows… something like “a technique learned by some in the crusades”.
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Hi 213. The thing is, that view of polearms is a bit twisted because of games. It is very difficult to implement spears in a way that they work properly. Thus, long weapons are usually easy to fight in most games. Also, game developers tend to use some kind of rock-paper-scissors systems, especially in strategies. Sword is beaten by horse, horse is beaten by spear and what could beat the spear? Sword.
I would like you, to watch THIS. If you would have ever tried to defeat a spearman with a sword in real life, you would have known. If the swordsman had a shield, he could have countered most of the spearman’s attacks, but as said, the spearman can always attack his head, which blinds him to certain degree. Even harder to defeat are IMHO one-handed spears combined with a shield. Than the spearman can keep you at distance with his weapon and counter your attacks with the shield. The shorter spear is also harder to block with your hand, even though you are at closer distance to the wielder. I am not sure about a situation when fighting a two-hander, isn’t two-handed sword actually created to counter polearms? (sorry if this is badly wrong)
I hope they implement spears as deadly as they are to a system where it would be fun to wield one. I think that the first person view is going to help a big one, because sword and shield won’t be the only way to go. (because of the view)
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Yeah, two-handed sword like zwei-hander was used against pikemans. But it is the matter of later centuries. I prefer using spear two-handed (for lever-effect). Video is interesting, but I hold the spear by the end, so I can add more power to thrust. Passing spear with shield is possible at least, but I would also grab a pole by hand, it’s easy when you are using buckler for example.
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About the spear-pike-sword-thing: my opinion is that there is a bit of a rock paper shotgun system in those weapons, meaning a pike is better against a storming rider than a short sword but you won’t be able to get in position very fast if someone blocks away your weapon and stands before you with a sword and a buckler. A bigger shield blocks your view, but you have less open space to be hit and a quarterstaff is god to block and hit and for distance, but you don’t do as much damage as with steel. So I’d love to see the advantages and disadvantages of each weapon to be of consequence. I think that would raise the replay value, becaus you try to beat the game wit another weapons type, and have to fight very differently, without having less chances of winning.
I agree. Levels are redundant. When fighting with melee weapons, only 4 factors weigh in on how well combat resolves.
1: Skill of the user(s).
2: Armor to penetrate
3: Balance/sharpness (quality of the weapon)
4: Weapon type.
1: Obvious and they have a imo great system for it 
2: This could be tricky seeing that bladed weapons hitting chainmail will be far less effective that a club og hammer
3-4: this is where the crafting comes into play, how it should affect the weapons you can craft(if any) and how far you can improve them is really tricky. like how would you improve upon a cast iron mace? polish the handle?
And it is worth noting that forging a sword from scratch, without mordern power tools and a ready supply of high grade materials, is extremely difficult and time consuming, spending days ingame to forge a sword might be a tad too immersive. But sharpening a weapon takes only minutes on a good grindstone.
How well you are at sharpening is another matter intirely.
And like someone posted further up, improving anything else than sharpness would be extremely hard unless you are reforging the weapon completely.
Masterwork smithing could also be (quantified) into 3 groups
Balance - Off - well balanced - perfectly balanced
Edge - Blunt - Cutting edge - razor sharp
Weapon assembly and materials used,
Is the iron soft and tempered badly the blade is more likely to warp and be unwieldly etc. but doesnt matter when dealing with most blunt weapons.
I think the game is going to reflect this nature of weapons and i really hope it will, with this in mind durability becomes reduntant aswell because most wear and tear on real weapons cannot be repaired. a bow will most likely only last for about 1000 shots before giving out, melee weapons have a similar fatigue threshold.
Cant wait to see how they actually do it, but if they keep it as close to reality as they possibly can, like they ARE doing from what i can read ill be very happy!
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I personally hope for a rich crafting system where eventually you can build up to superior arms. Keep in mind this will be challenging to set up as a complex blacksmithing path must be designed not only for the sword but also for all the other arms to be featured in the game. I’d like to see if but I acknowledge the largeness of the task.
But a historically accurate game would be more about functionality over metal. So the best swords would be made by the best blacksmiths out of whatever material they work best with over just the quality of the material itself. It would be cool to buy a cheap sword and have it fail mid combat though.
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Talk about pulling something apart.
What you say are all true. even though you did miss alot of points.
I wasnt going to spend time listing every and all things you can do to improve/change a weapon, but seeing that you allmost did that for me im glad.
And i dont know everything so i am also glad that i could be educated a little.
I would like to clarify my reasoning if it seems obscure to you.
You mean swords? im sure i havnt seen a bending club.
So a thrusting weapon with a centre of balance well up the blade is not off balance?
We agree wholeheartedly that weapons can be weighted differently for different reasons and that its easy to do so. that is not what i was talking about. . . .
Molten crap iron poured into a hole will make a “cast crap iron nugget”, !!that kind of cast iron!!. (_ _)
How else would you make an iron nugget? or silver bar? bash it with a hammer?
Weighing the weapon with another pommel is easy true, we covered that under balance.
How is grinding down the weapon or shortening it, improving it? You are making it into something else, the material used can still be crap?!
I did! So good of you to notice, Blade to blade contact makes grates in the edge, these grates can be grinded away at the loss of some weapon material, in the end the “wear and tear” on the blade will make it unusable.
And sharpening a blade is by removing matierial. like removing one apple from a basket of 50. you got 49 left. at one point you cant remove anymore. get it?
Wetstones are for making the “cutting edge” even sharper by making the tiny serrata on the edge even smaller so that you get smaller and a greater amount of small teeth on the saw that is the blade.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Chainmail
Regards =)
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Find the idea of having that one faithful sword the entire game philosophically pleasing, but obviously there were differences in iron and steel, their carbon content and the skill of the artisan.
And swords need to be reforged when damaged beyond mere maintenance. Perhaps have the blacksmith use a shard of my old companion, carry its essence into the weapon, new avatar of war. Having this sort of seemingly nonsensical sentimentality would add to the atmosphere of the game, I think. Or maybe its just foolish.
Certainly any sort of RPG type +2 would be out of place in a game such as KC. And the materials are too limited to have progression such as in Skyrim - at least it would feel artificially augmented for the sake of progression. So increasing the sentimental or investment value of a digital sword is one possible avenue of approach to this design problem.
P.S: Apologies if the post is a bit confusing, my strand of thought changed halfway through.
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Thank you it was worth the wait 
I did do this, for ingame purposes seeing that reality in all its splendor is incredibly difficult to translate well into a game, one can try, and the devs have imo. done quite well.
Moving the centre of balance is easy, you stated this i stated this. and i am sorry if i made it seem like balance was only created by the blade and the forging of same, my mistake.
Yes unpurified iron can shatter if one would try to cast it most times, but it has as far as i know been done way before the 14th century.
Digging out of the ground and bashing it O_o first you need to melt of the iron from the other elements that conprises ore, wich is done with a kiln and alot of hay and coal. i have some raw iron ore lying around here somewhere, i could try to bang it with a hammer but i know i would get nowhere.
Smaller pieces of iron, do you mean by forgewielding them or how would you get a workable material? anyways i think i know what you are trying to say, wich is (IDK) and thats okay.
Good to get that clarified cause it made no sense before. thanks.
But seeing that i was talking in general terms of weapon modification and improvement it still doesnt make any sense, you are talking about personilization of a weapon to fit a specific person, sure that can improve the weapon for that person, but improving it in general?? i dont see it.
Side note: you would be surprised, im not sure it qualifies as forging, butt [Utilitarian approch][1]
[1]: http://www.minds.com/blog/view/275764340253003776/man-escapes-captivity-with-a-knife-made-of-shit[quote=“Treysceusec, post:59, topic:272”]
Yes, it would wear away the blade so that there is less blade. I have seen people say on the internet that actual swords have been resharpened. That is repaired damage. Because you said that most damage cannot be repaired, I mentioned ways of repairing swords. I consider resharpening it repairing it, even if it may eventually be too narrow to be good.
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The allmighty internet, well i have ground down my woodworking axe because i hit a nail in the piece of wood i was attempting to split wich made a big knick in the axes edge. Guess what i had to grind down the blade and apply a new egde to the axe, and lost around 5mm of material along the length of the axe head, wich then resulted in(because of bad tempering from the manufactory that the new edge was soft, and the metal started warping right after i started using it again, so i applied a different edge, one that was more stumpy and less sharp but that can still cleave wood but i bought a new woodworking axehead that was tempered corectly and now have an extra axe, wich is good!
So i can understand why you would call it a repair, i just wouldnt, but we can agree to disagree on the wording [quote=“Treysceusec, post:59, topic:272”]
“Chain” mail, as opposed to ring mail and trellised mail and scale mail and plate mail that the Victorians thought they had. And unwashed Vikings with long hair wearing various sorts of mail as well as their horned helmets as they sailed huge ships to fight people with big double-bitted axes that they swung around their heads and killed a man with every swing.
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OOOH talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Auch 
- Vikings did not have horned helmets for use in anything but ritualistic manner!
- Vikings did not have various sorts of mail, there have been found 2 kinds, chainmail and riveted chainmail, wich is clothlike true.
- Vikings did not use double-bitted axes! they used all kinds of weapons but if we do talk axes they used one in particular thats rather nice, the Dane axe, CBA to link a pic, look it up.
- Vikings did not sail huge ships, but long lean boats called longboats wich could ride the waves and thus gain greater speeds, and were generally around a 100 roman feet wich translates into about 30 meters, like the longhouse.
- Vikings did not all have long hair, many finds of dead vikings show that they had either rather short hair or as some fighters had it,(short in the back of the head, for tactical reasons.
- If you want to know what a viking looked like, one guess could be my profile picture, seeing that i have been a viking age reinactor for over 18 years.
Well enough about Vikings(i do like the subject)
I live in the modern age of today and we use words to specify the past, how would you express feelings about a scalemail, platemail, all the fine words you just used and then said didnt needed using?
i have made a rather big sheet of chainmail, i call it that so that all can understand what i mean, without alot of question marks hanging around their heads. =)
For the record i think this has gotten rediculous and way off topic, if you have anything you would like to add, you are very welcome to do it in a personal message, cause, i do enjoy these talks of ours
Regards