Next Strechgoal: Polearms?

1 on 1, spears will almost always beat swords, unless you’re pretty heavily armored or have a shield. Halberds too.

I wouldn’t be so sure of that. First it also depends on the kind of sword. Keep in mind, a longsword or zweihander ALSO becomes a spear when you wield it in half-sword. And while you do have to watch out for strikes from the reverse end of the spear, once you’re past his point the sword has almost all of the advantages as it’s both more wieldy at close-quarters, and I’ve got much more to strike with (keep in mind, the shaft of a spear below the point isn’t nearly as useful to strike with, as you lose a great deal of your leverage and force of impact closer in).

I do this all the time: When approaching a spear I drop into half-sword. From there, I’ll either wait for him to strike and deflect his point to my outside, or if I have an opening I’ll aggressively move against his point. I then step in and shift to a normal grip, and either bind down on the shaft of the spear to force his point into the dirt as I close, or I’ll just run up the shaft to strike him directly. Either way, unless he can get the heck out of Dodge quickly or goes to grapple, I’ve got him dead to rights.

I’m of the opinion that THIS is how zweihanders would actually be used against pike; the notion of them lopping off pike heads is just silly, and there’s no contemporary evidence that this was the case. All depictions and claims that the two-handers were used in that manner were a century or more AFTER the fact. However half-swording is a reliable and effective means of getting inside the spear where he can’t hurt you, but you can get to him.

Now, if all you’ve got is an arming sword, yeah, you’re kind of in trouble without a shield to go with it. But even then all you need to do is pass his point once and you can still get inside and carve him up.

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Getting past the point of an experienced spearman is absurdly hard.

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I won’t even pretend to have the hands-on experience that you do, but, as far as shorter polearms go, wouldn’t one be able to wield a polearm much like a quaterstaff at close-quarters? In such a case, I feel the quarterstaff would win over most swords…

Let me ask a stupid qeustion.

Does sentence “we will have no polearms” means that there will be no polearms in the game, or that only main character will not be able to use them?
Because there are lot of pictures of soldiers with polearms and it kinda seems strange that they would not be able to use them.

Also I believe that in the video Dan says that there will be flails. (i could not find it but I think I heard it there)

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I come from an Japanese martial arts background, but I will tell you one thing - maintaining the distance is important and, sure, you could use the spear itself as a staff in theory, but it’s the ability to very easily shorten the distance and slide the polearm in your hands that makes spears and halberd-type weapons so damn effective. When you have all that length, it doesn’t take much movement to attack from a different angle - you get past the point only to find the point back in your face again, or you try to parry or bind only to find that it’s coming at you from an entirely different angle. We consider sword techniques for dealing with spearmen to be one of the highest forms of swordsmanship.

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I thought they weren’t doing flails because of the complexity of the weapon? Somebody correct me if I’m wrong, please.

Interesting perspective - that’s pretty cool. You do bring up another level of complexity if polearms were to be implemented. The fact that you can wield a polearm from different positions along its length would, as you stated, greatly impact almost all aspects of the technique. I imagine that this would make polearms that much harder to implement in the game.

Also, @ProkyBrambora, I hope you’re right and that they do have flails. I don’t have a good reason for it, but I have always thought flails to be SUPER bad-A…
Regarding just US not being able to use polearms - it wouldn’t make a whole lot of sense - I mean, what if we ended up fighting a guy using polearms? The same mechanics would have to be in place if the situation was reversed… granted, they could probably simplify the mechanics if they were only to be used by levied soldiers with little experience… hm… things to think about… Regardless it is NOT a dumb question :slight_smile:

I think that’s the reason spears were used by almost every single culture on every single continent. They’re extremely effective and are some what easy to learn.

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I would rather wait until the actual devs are here to talk about implementing polarms before I state my opinion. I wouldn’t want to help build up hype with my opinion on something the devs might not want in the game at this moment.

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My experience is that if the spearman has the reflexes and distance perception needed (and/or just stabs like crazy), the spear is incredibly useful even in one-on-one. It’s a little bit similar to that in ringen the dagger is far more useful than an unwieldy sword - the problem is bringing one into the inner circle, through the effective range of the longsword. Still, there is a reason that polearms were widely used.
I wouldn’t say that “It’s basically just halfswording” so simply either. Many sources go in lenght about longsword fighting, then say when it comes to polearms and staves “Fight with it just like with the sword.” It’s either laziness or semi-smart marketing (Does your book include staves? Well, in a way, of course!); these stuffs have wildly varying mass, center of mass, length etc., simply applying longsword “rules” to them doesn’t reach out for their full capacity. It’s no surprise that everything seems to be based on the sword since people usually did not walk around with a halberd as a self-defence weapon. :smiley: Differences come into play when someone takes the time to actually write about the weapon.

Honestly, as a longswordsman, I would be reluctant to duel against a good staff wielder, as even a simple staff is capable to deal horrendous damage to anything unarmoured.

Overall, I am sorry to hear the hardships that comes with implementing polearms (and I understand; it must be a horror to program different distances, rulesets and moves, and most importantly, their correlations; programming a believable encounter between a halberdier and a shielded maceman would probably be hell, f.e.), but maybe even a “not-the-best” implementation would be better than nothing, since simply and completely ignoring them would be similar to trying to show a realistic image of modern infantry combat - without assault rifles.
Maybe even worse, KC:D has a hard-earned repute of going farther for realism than any other title out there, so making this game “Chivalry: Bohemia” will strenghten the common “Woo, swords are the best, medieval people did even carpentry and cooking with swords” misconception.
Also, it makes the game flat. I don’t want to swordfight, I want to fight - shoot the guy with a hákovice in the face, if that’s the easiest way! :slight_smile: It doesn’t have to be fair.
Actually, the best if it isn’t fair. There are more beautiful techniques than backstabbing, but better? None.

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I too want to grab rakes and go to battle! :wink: Angry farmers uprising.

It had FAR more to do with the fact that spears were much cheaper and easier to produce, requiring very little in the way of high-quality steel. Remember that for much of the period from the Migration Era through the later Middle-Ages, swords could be almost prohibitively expensive. There were times that even some nobles were too poor to afford a sword. They were by no means easier to learn to fight with; even with a sword, pretty much anyone can pick one up and be dangerous or defend themselves in a pinch (I find that sometimes the most difficult opponents to fight are the ones who DON’T know what they’re doing). But polearm fighting was no less complex an art.

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Wait, mounted combat isn’t to be part of the game? I haven’t seen anything on that.

I also haven´t heard of that, expect for no longswords in horse combat. Do you have some more precise information about it @TheKnightinBlack?

On the other hand, I think if we don´t have mounted combat, polearms are not so important neither… :frowning:
but this would make the tactical variation of combat in the whole game very flat… like a modern war game like Arma without vehicles.

Wouldn’t it be easier if they did something similar to what assassin’s creed 2 did with polearms? By that i mean that they are only “temporary weapons” because you cannot put them into your inventory, just grab them and then drop them later. I believe it would be easier that way by forcing the player to drop it before entering interiors to avoid problems on small places.

Couldn’t they do something like M&B Warband? When you try to swing a polearm in a confined area, you cant even complete the swing. It just gets hung up in the wall. Either that or just have Henry automatically put the polearm away when he enters buildings.

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I don’t have precise information for no mounted combat, but there is the no longswords on horseback and…

Yes I realize they are charging, yet they don’t have weapons, so a charge like that would be kind of wasted in my opinion. AT the same time…

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2014/022/3/8/untitled_347_by_dennisk4-d739qul.gif



At this point I’m with Warhorse no matter what, but I’m getting mixed messages. :joy:

Also, from someone who doesn’t know (so please forgive me), couldn’t they use the stab and slash animations from the longsword for a polearm, adding only the distance from targeting? Like said, I wouldn’t know how you animate motion capture for a game as grand as this, but I would think the animations and movements wouldn’t be too unsimilar.

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A sword is one of the most versatile weapons useful at close and medium ranges in close combat, because of its point and edge.
It is also more durable than a spear, not relying on wood or pins to remain effective. Despite this a spear is still a good weapon, especially at range.

In the end it depends on the situation and types of arms and armour an opponent (s) are using and their training.

More armour: armour piercing arrows, swords, pikes, war hammers, mace, ect

Less armour: slashing swords, spears, broader arrowheads Ect.

It depends on being mounted/ foot and your opposition.

Be very careful when declaring x is better than y

Swords were pretty-much a sidearm.

Swords win on portability, because they can be carried on your person. That’s about it. They aren’t as effective at thrusting as a spear is, and they aren’t as effective at cutting as, say, a halberd or pollaxe, but they’re a happy medium between thrusting and cutting. They’re no more effective than a polearm, but definitely more expensive. Meanwhile, spears aren’t as durable, but they aren’t exactly easy to break either. They’re also easily replaced, whereas your expensive sword isn’t something you really want to get chewed up if you can avoid it.

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