No 'Dexterity' Stat?! – and Other Caveats

Gameplay
#1

Dexterity, dudes! Where’s the dexterity attribute/stat?

• agility / mobility (noun) : Ability to move quickly and easily (from Latin agere ‘do’). / The ability to move or be moved freely and easily.

• dexterity (noun) : Skill in performing tasks, especially with the hands. Origin: Early 16th century (in the sense ‘mental adroitness’): from French dextérité, from Latin dexteritas, from dexter ‘on the right’.

As you can see, agility (or mobility) and dexterity are not the same thing. You don’t use agility to pick locks, brew potions or forge a sword, but primarily dexterity.

And, since I haven’t played the game, I’m curious: what role does Speech have? Is it a function of Charisma or a representation of Intellect/Scholarship (though the two are not the same thing)? If it’s a part of the former, then (it seems to me that) it’s redundant. If it’s a representation of the latter, then it should (could) be replaced with the latter. I mean, if the main character’s smart/educated (again, not the same thing), he will find it more easily to learn a new language and speak eloquently.

Another caveat (and someone mentioned it before on the forum): that potion brewing that you have in the game is herbalism, not alchemy!

• alchemy (noun) : The medieval forerunner of chemistry, concerned with the transmutation of matter, in particular with attempts to convert base metals into gold or find a universal elixir. Origin: Late Middle English: via Old French and medieval Latin from Arabic al-kīmiyā’, from al ‘the’ + kīmiyā’ (from Greek khēmia, khēmeia) ‘art of transmuting metals’.

• herbalism (noun) : The study or practice of the medicinal and therapeutic use of plants, now especially as a form of alternative medicine.

(Note: The above definitions are from OxfordDictionaries.com)

Edit. “Intriguingly, the most pertinent skill might be Speech, which not only improves your haggling [bartering/trading] and persuasion [negotiation/diplomacy] abilities but allows you to learn an enemy language for reconnaissance purposes.” (IGN)

I’m not sure where/how Speech would be better listed: as an attribute (/stat) or as a skill. Maybe: replace Speech with Intellect as an attribute, and list Speech (perhaps renamed as Rhetoric) among the skills.

KCD_character_overview_-_Speech.jpg1280×720 375 KB

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#2

Well I guess you are right in all your points :slight_smile:
Those names are probably mainly chosen as they are used in similar ways in other RPG games and players are familiar with them, but I guess that could be changed (if devs will want to :smiley: )

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#3

Dexterity was a common attribute in old school RPGs.

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#4

This might just be a mistranslation. Maybe they have a word for both skill with the hands, and mobility on the feet this way and that, and had a bad dictionary that gave them the word “agility” as a translation. They could fix it by renaming “agility” to “Both Henry’s skill with his hands at fine work, and also his skill at running and changing direction and jumping and climbing”. I can’t think of any English word for that off the top of my head.

#5

Maybe they have such a word in Czech (though I doubt it). But the thing is, that agility and dexterity are trained differently. While the definition of agility may cover the mobility of the arms too, not just that of the legs, dexterity refers particularly to hands and fingers (fine motor skills). A nimble acrobat isn’t necessarily a proficient craftsman (say, a tailor) – though he could be, if he trained in both – and vice versa.

To be fair though, in both Merriam-Webster and the Oxford Dictionaries, agility appears as a synonym to dexterity. But so does “handiness”.

I’d say that an archer, for example, would require both agility and dexterity, plus strength.

#6

I am in conflict with basically ALL RPG games, when they require strength as main attribute for wielding swords :smiley: Swords,with usual weigth of 1.5-2.5kg, allmost every time require same strength as 6kg two handed mace, like its hard to swing this thing :smiley:
Quite contrary the great thing about swords is that they require very little strength, but require mostly very good both agility and dexterity :slight_smile: And best modern swordsman are almost allways long, very thin and agile men, capable of great speed and swift movements, not some bulky macho man with ton of muscles

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#7

So strength would only be required for heavier weapons and dealing more damage.

#8

Well, in most fantasy RPGs the swords are usually disproportionate (imbalanced and oversized) and the characters are often wielding swords the size of – what in reality would be – a two-hander in just one hand.

#9

Actually, in Czech language we do have word “obratnost” which means how good are your motoric abilities. It can mean both your skill with your hands (“zručnost” would be more precise czech term) and your ability to move quickly and flexibly (“hbitost”). I can not find proper English translation, that is true. In Czech version of DnD “obratnost” usally replaces “dexterity”.

#10

Fencing is the dexterity (with weapons) skill, and it increases with use over time. You also have a skill with specific weapons. Problem solved.

#11

We’re talking here about attributes/stats, not skills.

#12

What I meant is: I doubt that in Czech they have a term for “both skill with the hands at fine work, and skill at running and changing direction and jumping and climbing”. – While in your language there may be a word that means skill or agility in general (cf. in English: “agile fingers”, “agile mind”), I doubt that you have such an oddly specific term.

#13

Yep, that means that I understood you correctly :slight_smile: “Obratnost” doesn’t mean “skill” but it means something you can describe by your words: “both skill with the hands at fine work, and also skill at running and changing direction and jumping and climbing”. I understand that it does not solve your problem with agility/dexterity distinction but… well, it was just quick remark about Czech language. We also have more precise terms to distinguish between different aspects but “obratnost” is pretty common word :slight_smile:

Edit: Also, we are used to translate dexterity as “obratnost” in many cases. But, truth to be told, it is a problem to do it vice-versa.

#14

You were saying?

#15

And you? :slight_smile:

Statistic (role-playing games)

"Most games divide their statistics into several categories. …

"Attributes describe to what extent a character possesses natural, in-born characteristics common to all characters. …

“Skills represent a character’s learned abilities in predefined areas.”

#16

Yes, strength, dexterity, constitution, charisma, intelligence, and often wisdom, which is for priests instead of intelligence which is for mages. Those are the most common ones, and in games, they are generally fixed. In reality, they are not fixed. They improve or degrade over time with use or lack of.

What you’re talking about though, dexterity, does not exist as a single stat or attribute. Sure, you can be naturally more inclined to some things than others, but being a master smith does not make you a master swordsman.

Basically, the fencing stat, is the traditional dexterity stat, and as in real life, it improves over time. Do you think acrobats all start knowing how to perform that way? Of course not. It’s learned, and improved, upon.

#17

Well, that’s the definition from Wikipedia.

Edit. Here’s a proper definition:

attribute (noun) : A quality or feature regarded as a characteristic or inherent part of someone or something.

And:

skill (noun) : The ability to do something well; expertise. (Same dictionary as before.)

#18

Yes, and dexterity is a skill, not an attribute. I will agree that some people will have bodies more suited to certain tasks. Dwarves (the real kind) with stubby fingers are not well suited to being surgeons for example. Short and thin people make the best gymnasts and divers (in the Olympics) for another. I’m sure you can think of many more.

That said, Henry is one fairly generic person that everyone will play as. We don’t choose his stats, and there are no predefined classes, so none of that matters. All his inherent attributes will be identical for everyone, and all his skills can be improved upon or ignored. It’s unclear whether skills will degrade over time, but considering how short the game is supposed to be, set in a single year, I am leaning towards their not degrading, unless injured or something along those lines.

#19

Moot point, they are only fencing for sport, not one of them are training to kill, strength then, is a pretty pointless attribute as long as you’re strong enough to use your sword.

#20

Well the point is that you don´t need strength to kill somebody with sword :slight_smile: And I bet you that those modern hema swordsman could very easily kill somebody with their weapon if they tried to…

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